Thanks for kind comment - mind you, I would not want to take Iarbas' comment 'ille Paris, cum semiviro comitatu' (later echoed by Turnus) as authoritative. Iarbas speaks from racial resentment - and the kind of igorance that we would call 'stereotyping' - about all Trojans, not about A personally. He's never met a Trojan in his life. - Martin Hughes
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Stefano Vitrano wrote: > I was very pleased to get Martin Hughes? post. He evidenced the two major > sources of Dido?s behaviour, Apollonius? Medea and the real character of > Cleopatra. > In my opinion Virgil was clever to create a good mix between these characters. > He managed to create a character who is both sentimental and rational. > In fact, according to roman, male chauvinist attitude, a female character > rationally stronger than the protagonist would have been unconceivable and, > may be, hateful for V?s public. On the contrary a too sentimental character > would have been a flat character, nearly a satire of female characters. > For this reason Stazius defined V?s style ?paene comicus? when it reaches > the top of its sentimentalism. Besides, V couldn?t have done a mere comparison > with only one of those characters, because both Medea and Cleopatra find > their strength in the ineptitude of their lovers: Jason would be nothing > without M?s support, he would never win his trials and, especially in Euripides?s > tragedy, his behaviour is hateful for public. Cleopatra, instead, managed > to dim her lovers? mind reducing them like beasts and taking the control > on them. And, also by Horace?s famous Carmen (I, 37), we know that a great > part of Romans were terrified by her presence, seeing her as the ?fatale > monstrum? of Roman power. > At the same way, Aeneas is not the strong hero of classic epos, a hero > of that kind would have been unconceivable with the new, fine Augustan mentality, > even Iarba defines him ?semivir?. > Ergo V?s great ability was to create a poem without too strong characters, > making a complex structure in which every character could have his role > and show his intricate behaviour. > > >-- Messaggio originale -- > >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:53:36 +0000 (GMT) > >From: M W Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: VIRGIL: RE: VIRGIL teaching Aeneid - inspiring students > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >I share your admiration for the Dido and Aeneas story as treated both by > >V and by Purcell, but I think we should be careful about the > >Cleopatra/Dido analogy in V. It's clearly there, but what > >does it imply? Much, much more than a dig at Antony. > > > >Dido isn't perfect but the portrait of her (as later with Camilla, > >another Beloved Enemy figure) is pretty positive. She is beautiful > >despite her cares and exertions, has a strong personality, is fair-minded > >enough to see the Trojan side of the story (heretical as this is for one > >educated in Junonian teachings), is generous to those in trouble and > >loves Aeneas sincerely. One of her political problems is that she cannot > >take her own Tyrian people with her in her increasing favour to the > >Trojan exiles. She stands in the way of Trojan-Roman destiny, but > >unwittingly and with no malevolent intention. > > > >Damien Neilis (V's Aen. and the Argonautica, 2001) draws attention to the > >V/Apollonius links, and Apollonius' Medea is surely one of the models for > >V's Dido. Within limits: Dido entirely lacks Medea's ruthlessness, at > >least until she is driven to complete despair, and Medea would never have > >committed suicide. This model would lead us to expect co-operation between > >hero and heroine (who is culturally ambiguous, torn between East and West) > >to the point where the interests of the heroine's people are disregarded. > >Dido and Cleopatra are alike in not betraying or abandoning their own > >country and people, unless one counts putting them on the losing side in > >a war. > > > >All this would show some understanding for the position taken by Antony > >and then by Gallus, V's closest friend, in seeking some modus vivendi with > >Egypt - perhaps more generally with the peoples and cultures of the East. > >Augustus chose to regard both A and G as traitors, but perhaps even he > >took a version of their point that the Eastern world should not just be > >confronted, but should to some degree be conciliated and find its ideas > >taken seriously. V may have contributed something here. > > > >The overriding message of Aen.IV, presumably representing V's > >long-standing convictions, is surely that the day on which the seeds of > >genocidal war are sown is a very bad day for all concerned > >and for their descendants. However, Augustus' efforts at conciliation > >were perhaps directed at the Jews rather than the Egyptians. For the > >traditional Eastern figure of a mysterious, fierce and seductive woman, > >typified by Cleopatra, he subsituted the mysterious, fierce and > >patriarchal figure of Herod the Great. It's hard to think that A never > >discussed Egyptian and Jewish cultures with V, who had shown great > >interest in both and who must surely have been drawn into the Gallus > >problem, whether or not he agreed to remove Laudes Galli from the final > >version of Geo. IV. > > > >V's Dido does surely echo the historical Cleopatra, political and > >personal partner of Antony, but the overall effect is not sheer scorn for > >Antonian policy but some understanding of why it was plausible, even if > >it was, as A and his circle believed it was, entirely mistaken. > > > >- Martin Hughes > > > > > >On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Helen South wrote: > > > >> Oh I LOVE the suggestion about the Dido and Aeneas story being a dig > at > >> Anthony over Cleopatra, that is just SO good. That just made my day. > >> It just reminded me of the most amazing, transport-me-to-another-universe > >> music that would be a perfect warmup for students who are even a tiny > bit > >> receptive to classical music - Purcell's Dido and Aeneas, the Kirsten > >> Flagstaad - Elizabeth Schwartzkopf (excuse spelling) recording. Play > them > >> 'When I am Laid in Earth'. Guaranteed to melt the hardest heart. If you > >> haven't heard it, go listen to it! > >> this webpage has an audio file, I don't know if it works though as my > >> computer wouldn't load it: > >> http://www.alphamusik-shop.de/2059817.html > >> > >> best wishes > >> Helen > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to > >> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. > >> Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message > >> "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You > >> can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > >> > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. > >Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message > >"unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You > >can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > > Stefano Vitrano > C.E.I. school, Palermo, Italy > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. > Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message > "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You > can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
