RANDI C ELDEVIK schrieb:
>
>
> On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Hans Zimmerman wrote:
>
> > > 3. The continuity of "Roma" as caput mundi in the complementarism of
> king and > priest, of rex and sacerdos - see "So erhielt Petrus das
> Kaisertum" >http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454/otiapref.htm > - in
> the form of Kaiser and Papa, confirmed by the Constantine donation - a >
> fake, of course, but in this form best expression of the fundamental idea.
> > > So far, I'm d'accord with RANDI C ELDEVIK; but he
>
> [--Actually, she.]
>
> also has written some nonsense about the ordo domus St. Mariae
> Teutonicorum in his last letter: > > > the > > Teutonic Knights (an order
> of military monks)> > ? Templises (Temple-knights) and the knights of
> Malta (what is the English name > for this ordines?) were the prototype of
> this ordo. "Military monks" - is that > the common name of such knights?
>
> [--What is the problem with calling the Teutonic Knights a military order
> of monks? That's what they were, weren't they?]
good morning. Are you sure, they were monks? Templar-knights, Maltesians and
knights of the ordo domus etc. were not monks in the classical sense: they were
married often, they were knights - that is an opposite lifestyle also in
medieval view, see Trevrizent in the Perceval/Parzival-epos:
http://home.t-online.de/home/03581413454-0003/trevriz.htm
Trevrizent has to end his life as a "knight" for to become a monk. In society
of
the graal live knights, not monks: they are able to marry noble women - so the
idea (the "literature, that makes history").
> The people conquered by the ordo were the Prussians, and later also the
> people > living in the Balticum. Conflict with the Polish kingdom was late
> . . .
> [--I don't think Mantovano is the place to discuss late-medieval Eastern
> European history. But I would like to briefly note that I am not talking
> "nonsense". I may have skipped over a lot; certainly the Teutonic Knights
> were aggressors throughout a large part of the Baltic and tried to
> suppress a lot of indigenous cultures.
yes. please tell me one knight, who was not an aggressor. please tell me one
medieval king, who didn't fight against his neighbours. please tell me one
European state, who didn't try to colonise. Medieval time is a neverending war
of each noble person against the other one.
> But in doing so the Teutonic
> Knights came into conflict with the Poles, since the Polish-Lithuanian
> Federation had ruled vast northeastern regions (much bigger than the
> present-day states of Poland and Lithuania) ever since the time of
> Jagiello;
yes, a big aggressive state, conquering the Ucraine and forcing the orthodox
people into Catholicism.
> and, in their arrogance, the Teutonic Knights tended to view the
> Poles themselves as "foreign" and "non-Catholic" in the same way as they
> viewed the neighboring peoples with whom the Poles were confederated.
why should they? where is the text? ("die Quelle")?
> For my purposes, the Teutonic Knights and _all_ their activities are
> just another example of an arrogant approach to cultural hegemony that was
> all too common in Western Christianity during the Middle Ages;
no. It was common all over the world. It is not fruit of Christianity, but of
feudal structure of society.
> afterward, too.
> I might just as well have mentioned the example of the Spanish
> conquistadors who wanted to convert the Amerinds of Mexico and Central
> America, but who forbade Amerind converts to be ordained to the priesthood
> because, somehow, even after baptism and Catholic education, they were
> considered to be "not good enough." Sadly, the _Aeneid_ is tied in with
> all these various attempts at cultural hegemony: see Richard Waswo's
> article "The History that Literature Makes" in _New Literary History_.]
> Randi Eldevik (Ms.)
> Oklahoma State University
thank you, that's a good bridge to the "theme": building a state like the
Imperium Romanum with its Ideology of "pax Romana" means: to leave the old
feudal structure of eternal war. After 700 years of Roman war Vergil "sees" the
great peace coming by Augustus. And he is not the only one with this vision.
The idea of a big area of civilisation without borders comes back late. It is
recent: shall the UNO "debellare superbos" in East Timor or not?
grusz, hansz
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