I'm sorry not to have read Christine's article: it's an omission I will make good soon. Meanwhile, like Matthew, I warm to the idea that Creusa has a responsible role in what Neven rightly calls a military situation. This is the role assigned to the second officer in a Roman military century, the 'optio', who kept a lookout from the rear of the line. I think Creusa exercises her responsibility in a more determined and tragic way than Aeneas envisages. The reason why Aeneas survives is surely that she does not follow him as he expects but lures the Greek soldiers to follow her, knowing that they will be looking for a woman to rape - then torture and kill. She does this - it's more heroic than anything Aeneas does - to spare both her son and the other women in the company. Reflecting on David's comments I agree that there will be other women in the group of evacuees: their job will indeed be to carry what pieces of gold and jewellery than can manage. It is not V's method (there are some exceptions, perhaps) to dwell explicitly on disgusting things, so the Goddess takes Creusa's life before the Greeks can touch her and Aeneas sees only her serene and dignified shade, not her poor body. But I think that the horror of Creusa's heroic fate is implicitly part of the background of the conversation with Deiphobus in Book VI, though Deiphobus is too tactful to mention Creusa by name. Presumably he suspects rather than knows that she did not survive. But his references to 'the false joys of that last night' and to 'too much inescapable memory' (513-4) must recall Creusa very bitterly. This is the moment when Sibyl-Deiphobe, (surprisingly Deiphobus' spiritual sister) fears that Aeneas may lose heart and hurries him on. - Martin Hughes
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, matthewspencer wrote: > > > Christine Perkell wrote: > > > > > Since Aeneas is carrying his father, who in turn holds the household > > gods, and is holding his son by the hand, you can hardly argue that > > Aeneas entrusts Creusa with everything important to him! Quite the > > opposite! He is in physical contact with what is important to him (as he > > conceives it) and to his mission = the state which he will found. This > > is part of how Vergil characterizes Aeneas' values. I believe Vergil > > puts these values into some question here in this passage, that he > > suggests some of their limitations. The fact that some attentive and > > sensitive readers do stumble over this and other related passages (that > > put into question the SAME sorts of issues) "proves" that it is Vergil's > > concern to raise these issues. Unless you want to argue that he is > > careless and always careless in the same way. > > i think you are right about vergil's wish to 'raise these issues', > however, i would not go so far as to say that he considers aeneas as > entrusting nothing important to him to creusa, which you seem to be > asserting. i would argue that we must consider this passage in terms of > history, or rather, the force of history. romans and the study of > history of course go together. in livy's account (_early history of > rome_) we do not find this particular facet of the aeneas story, but we > do find much worse filial impiety in the stories of amulins and numitor > and romulus and remus... livy seems to be asserting a certain > lamentation over the reality of civil war, but it seems to me that both > he and vergil, and you can tell me if i am wrong, both lament but also > embrace such impieties. that is to say, there is acceptence for what > they take to be part of human nature. why else would romans wish to > trace their roots back to not one, but two fratricides? > > to refocus on vergil, aeneas is carrying the past of a people upon his > shoulders, he is running alongside, hand in hand, with the future. the > present, if we disregard for a moment the notion of custodiat, is > ultimately left behind. troy is burning, and their present must (must) > now become a hope of things to come. aeneas is a reluctant hero because > for vergil, being a hero means self-sacrifice. but that he is reluctant > displays his pietas, which homer also comments on, and which the romans > hold in the highest regard. > > but i love the idea of custodiat. in some sense, the present (both > aeneas and creusa) is wholly involved and disolved in the mission. it is > the nature of history that sometimes the innocent and the pious suffer. > and, sunt lacrimae rerum. > > -matthew spencer > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. > Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message > "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You > can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message "unsubscribe mantovano" in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
