On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 5:56 PM Drew Jensen <drewjensen.in...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 2:42 PM kainz.a <kain...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
>> is in finishing.
>>
>
> I have the task of writing the draft for the Calc guide appendix on the
> Notebookbar interface changes. Likely that will feed the work on the
> Getting Started Guide appendix of the same name.
>
> Adding another UI  will add plenty of work.
>
> I would also hope you mean it when you say it will be finished, because
> from a system perspective and IMO tabbed notebook bar was not.
> Customization is lost when the new UI is active (extension or user added
> buttons not available, extension and user added menus not available) and a
> number of keyboard shorts cuts (which actually require the top level menus)
> no longer function. I would of thought such details required to be moved
> from experimental to standard feature.
>
> Then there are changes, for instance buttons of similar name and function
> between standard toolbar and notebook bar actually function slightly
> differently (don't know how many of those there are but there have been a
> few found and confirmed that the change in behavior is intentional).
>

And finally, the help system - there is no online help for the Notebook bar
(except for a two paragraph mention, which says it is experimental and how
to turn it on and off - so 50% of what is there is wrong in other words) -
I would expect that on-line help should also of been a prerequisite for
graduation from experimental.

Now I'm done.



>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
>
>
>>
>> Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity <nigelver...@hotmail.com>
>> geschrieben:
>>
>>> Drew/Mike
>>>
>>> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>>>
>>> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
>>> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
>>> this can be automated without being intrusive
>>>
>>> Nige
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Drew Jensen <drewjensen.in...@gmail.com>
>>> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
>>> To: nigelver...@hotmail.com
>>> Cc: mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org; Tdf Marketing
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>>> LibreOffice'.
>>>
>>> Howdy Mike,
>>>
>>> I will reply in line.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity <nigelver...@hotmail.com
>>> <mailto:nigelver...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
>>> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
>>> user permits experimental features.
>>>
>>> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
>>> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
>>> are still experimental.
>>>
>>>
>>> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
>>> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
>>> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
>>> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
>>> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
>>> should be considered.
>>>
>>> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
>>> old and stayed as that look is).
>>>
>>> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
>>> top level View menu.
>>>
>>> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
>>> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
>>> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>>>
>>> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always
>>> available from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the
>>> top level menu also.
>>>
>>> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with
>>> the Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some
>>> functions turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the
>>> All Tabs drop down menu.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Drew
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Nige
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Mike Saunders <mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org<mailto:
>>> mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org>>
>>> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
>>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org<mailto:
>>> marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>>> LibreOffice'.
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
>>> one
>>> > Poster.
>>>
>>> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
>>> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
>>> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
>>> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>>>
>>> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
>>> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>>>
>>> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
>>> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
>>> on social media ;-) )
>>>
>>> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>>>
>>> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>>>
>>> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
>>> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
>>> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
>>> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
>>> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
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