Harland,

All very interesting, but not really responsive to the two questions 
I asked, each of which takes a simple yes or no.  THEN comes the why 
or why not parts.

I ask these questions not to put you personally on the spot, but to 
illuminate what I think is the libertarian quandry.

For the record, just to show that I have not just invented a concern 
with this kind of issue, at one time years ago I fervently stated to 
a liberal friend, during a fervent discusion on what needed to be 
done about global warming and persuing the non-agression principle in 
all its glory, that it was preferable for all of mankind to vanish 
utterly than for it to accept a condition of slavery.  I have since 
changed my mind. 

Regards,
Allen

--- In [email protected], Harland Harrison 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Allen,
> 
> The question is not whether I would "personally" commit murder, but 
whether
> or not I would do so because I was a Federal official.  As a Federal
> official, I could not deny anybody life without due process of law.
> 
> I would take the Federal Oath of Office, to uphold the 
Constitution, very
> seriously.  Brian Holtz previously wrote that the oath does not 
trump
> personal beliefs, (as I understood him.)
> 
> Even if you did want to kill somebody to save other lives, you 
still could
> not argue that is was "justified."  If you kill some innocent 
person to save
> yourself or your family or your beloved country or even all of 
them, you do
> it out of selfishness.  The innocent victim you kill is not selfish 
as Brian
> claimed; the killer and the survivors are the selfish ones.  That 
cannot be
> "justified" but perhaps could be forgiven.
> 
> As for me personally, I do not promise to save your life by killing 
somebody
> else. I might do it, but I might not. I don't make any promises.  I 
do not
> promise to kill anybody under any circumstances. Some people would, 
but many
> would not. However, this is a religious kind of value.  It is 
completely
> wrong for politicians to criticize anybody for believing 
differently. We
> politicians have no right attempting to "slam-dunk refute" a ZAP 
principle.
> Would we attack Islam next? Judaism after that?
> 
> Trolleys aside, we do have the opportunity to save lives by murder 
every
> day.   The Transplant Surgeon has that chance every day.  Save 
lives; kill
> somebody and steal her organs!  Do you think we should take that 
branch?
> That opportunity comes up every day.  Would anybody approve?
> 
> Harland Harrison
> 
> 
> 
> on 5/7/07 9:42 AM, Allen Rice at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Harland,
> > 
> > When it comes to believing words, I respect you too much to think 
it
> > credible that you have really thought yours all the way through, 
when
> > you say of Brian:  "If you think the defense of 298,000,000 people
> > can justify even one murder, I do not trust you in Federal 
office."
> > 
> > Perhaps I misunderstand you, but does this mean that YOU 
personally
> > would NOT take one life in order to save 298 million?
> > 
> > If so, I must disagree, based on nothing but basic logic, sans
> > trolleys and fat men of any sort.
> > 
> > Surely you would agree that, given two possible outcomes of a
> > branching situation, a) that one should live and 298 million 
should
> > die, or b) that 298 million should live and one should die, that 
b)
> > is the preferable outcome?  If not, why not?
> > 
> > If b IS the preferable outcome, then if one has the opportunity to
> > force it over the less preferable one, shouldn't one take on the
> > responsibility to do so?  If not, why not?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Allen Rice
> > 
 

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