Nicely put. Several tentative responses: The question remains, though, even within our sphere of > action, discovering nature's properties independent of us, is dialectics > just a matter of cognition, or the structure of social activity more > generally, or does it begin in the natural processes apart from intelligent > life activity that, after all, have ultimately generated conscious > beings? Is there an objective dialectics in this latter sense?
Following Hegel's schema of the development of logic, I would argue that just as there is objective logic (i.e. logical activity that can only be "known reflectively" as an object of reflection) there is an objective dialectic. The basic kernel of both logic and dialectic (they are after all the same) is purposive activity. It matters not that the agents of purposive activity are fully or even at all conscious of their cognitive activity, the very prosecution of intentional activity implies logic/dialectics. Note that this is not the same as saying that nature is dialectical, but rather is an assertion that dialectics is a universal property of all life activity no matter how primitive. > Science, let us say, correctly characterizes the natural world independently of us. But is dialectics pertaining to this > independent external world the dialectics of nature itself or the > dialectics of science? I think I gave a partial answer to this question in my response to Steve's last message. The products of human activity should never be regarded as the issue of pure logic or of the unfettered human imagination. Even Hegel would not accept this proposal. Science no less then the material products of human labour represent a unity of human activity in an independent external world that has existed prior to man's emergence and confronts men's ambitions with conditions to which he must accommodate his activity if they are to realize their goals. Labour is a cooperative activity in which men work with nature as their partner. Oudeyis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph Dumain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] O, Dialectics! > I will need to address subsequent posts on this topic, but first: there is > an interesting implicit subtlety here. If the question is not whether > nature is dialectical but whether science (the study of nature) is > dialectical, then even though nature exists independently of man, science > as a form of human activity and cognition does not, since, tautologically, > we only know what exists via interaction with the rest of nature and can't > speak of anything else except as a hypothetical metaphysical > possibility. The question remains, though, even within our sphere of > action, discovering nature's properties independent of us, is dialectics > just a matter of cognition, or the structure of social activity more > generally, or does it begin in the natural processes apart from intelligent > life activity that, after all, have ultimately generated conscious > beings? Is there an objective dialectics in this latter sense? Again, > here's the ambiguity. Science, let us say, correctly characterizes the > natural world independently of us. But is dialectics pertaining to this > independent external world the dialectics of nature itself or the > dialectics of science? > > More to come. > > At 12:14 PM 5/27/2005 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >but what about history of nature? I mean before there wasn't anything that > >can be qualified as man's interaction withthe world. does in your view > >dialectics start with the appearance of a species that does not simply > >adjust > >itself to nature like other animals but starts changibng it more or less > >conscioulsy by labour? > > > >NOTE, THAT THE ISSUE OF THE RELEVANCE OF LOGIC (DIALECTICS) TO HUMAN HISTORY > >IS NOT A MATTER OF THE NATURE OF THE WORLD BUT OF MAN'S INTERACTION WITH THE > >WORLD > > > _______________________________________________ > Marxism-Thaxis mailing list > Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu > To change your options or unsubscribe go to: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/05 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/05 _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
