[Edited Message Follows] [Reason: Removed following sentance which, misinterpreted Hari: "2) You draw attention to the wild-cat strikes in the UK leading to the crushing of the militant miners’ strike by Thatcher as evidence of the leadership lagging the consciousness of the base. I don’t think this was true of the Scargill leadership."]
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM, hari kumar wrote: > > Good am Marv: > The prior short exchange has drawn much dumping on Leninism by some, > arguing how it became irrelevant (supposedly) in "free democratic" > societies. Good morning Hari, Gojko, whose arguments I treat seriously, believes with many others that the tendency towards autocratic rule is inherent in Leninist parties, based on the experience in the USSR and wherever Communist parties have taken power. I expect you and I would strongly disagree about how deformed these parties were but would attribute such deformations as we could agree on to the lower level of economic development and the inevitable restrictions on political rights in societies under siege. If these parties had taken power in the more developed West, as was supposed to happen, I believe there would have been a substantially greater degree of internal party democracy and political freedom within a socialist US or Western Europe. Gojko also believes the “moment has passed” for Leninist parties since they were based on an industrial proletariat which is being increasingly replaced by robots. It is true that service sector workers, especially the precariat, are more transient and insecure and consequently lack the same bargaining power. However, if there is a social breakdown I see no reason why the more politically conscious among them would not again gravitate to a party dedicated to recruiting the most politically conscious and committed activists - a Leninist party by whatever name - within the broader movement for change. So in grappling with Gojko’s criticisms, I find I am still on the same page with you. Three more comments: 1) You’re right "that 'crying wolf' repeatedly does de-sensitise us to the possibility" that change is around the corner. I may have understated or ignored the " concatenation of very large shifts” in the tectonic plates of the current social order which is increasingly evident. 2) I'd also concede that in the interwar years, when the CP was very influential in the rising industrial union movement, there was a substantial cohort of workers whose consciousness and combativity was in advance of the New Deal Democrats and social democrats elsewhere at the head of these unions, but eventually the Reuthers won out. They did so not only because they were assisted by state repression and the anti-Communist climate of the times, but that capitalism was able to meet the demands of the mass of workers seeking reform of the system rather than its overthrow. 3) I believe workers always start out seeking reforms and fear revolution. IMO that explains the greater success of reformist movement leaders and politicians when the system is relatively stable. It is only when it collapses that the desperate masses turn to revolution. Appealing to them to overthrow the system before then, especially employing Communist iconography, is more apt to frighten than attract. Fighting for reforms alongside working people has the opposite effect. They can only learn through their own experience in struggle that they have no alternative other than to bring industries under public ownership and control. I’ve always considered this to be the ABC of Marxism, but the open hostility of contemporary Western Marxists to the left-centre parties and their distance from the more politically advanced workers who still remain loyal to them seems to me to be in contradiction to this understanding. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#33538): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/33538 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/109504727/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
