Trevor, Errol and list
I tried swapping T/arms on my Stanza to get extra length (more camber) and found two
points.
1. You can get T/arms with the inner pivot point narrower than stock (see 200B)so you
can shim it forward in the crossmember to get caster without distorting the bush.
2. The toe control arms generally won't line up with their mounts as the distance from
the crossmember to the front suspension mount is different from model to model.
If anyone knows any swaps let me know - but I think I'll try the cut'n'shut method.
One aspect of suspension that hasn't been mentioned is roll centre.
A lowered 1600 possibly has the front roll centre higher than the rear roll centre.
This gives good rear end traction but there should be a way of fiddling with the
suspension geometry to adjust them to get a good balance between grip and rear end
traction in corners.
Does anyone know any more about playing with roll centres?
regards,
Nick
1978 Datsun Stanza
============================================================
From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:40:27 +1030
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
Listers,
Jason Gray's tech page may give you some more ideas.
<a
href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm">http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm</a>
<<a
href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm>">http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm></a>
He mentions on this page about 710 parts which can be fitted ito a 1600.
Offset isolators (bolt holes moved 5mm), 3/8th inch longer control arms and
different positioning of the lower control arm mounts in the crossmember
(haven't measured this one). This may be enough on a road car to keep you
happy.
I am currently using some adjustable Datrally lower control arms (3cm longer
than std 1600) and torana radius rods (max adjustment). I have 2 deg neg
camber and 4 deg of pos caster. This was with 2 inch lowered kings springs,
good shocks and std isolators. I also have a big front sway bar. Turn in is
not bad, the car lifts the inside front wheel at turn 1 at sandown. Past the
apex the car has understeer as you get on the gas again. I need a rear sway
bar or maybe put on the std front bar. I have and open diff and 195 x 60 x
14 brigdstone 520s tyres. I plan to try the 5mm offset isolators at Calder
on the 17th of feb.
Nick, I like the look of the rose jointed lower contol arm for a race car.
They don't put any stess on the pivot on the crossmember when you wind up
heaps of pos caster. Rember the picks of the failed pivot points on the list
a while back!
Regards
Trev
-----Original Message-----
From: Errol Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2001 8:36
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
Andrew, Ken, List,
The reason for running that much castor is that castor turns into camber on
turns. This means that when the wheel is turned into a corner the wheels
gets a lot more camber from running high castor levels
I usually run Caster and camber equal if possible. Five caster and five
degrees camber and this seems to give the best steering in turns without
needing arms like Godzilla to turn the wheel.
Cheers
Feral Errol
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<a href="http://www.datrats.com.au/">http://www.datrats.com.au/</a> <<a
href="http://www.datrats.com.au/>">http://www.datrats.com.au/></a>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of andrew smith
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 1:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
Ken,
I don't know why more people don't extend there control arms for more neg
camber as the 1600's have quite poor suspension geometry standard and this
is a cheap fix when combined with adjustable castor.Any good welder should
be able to do this using a 3 run fillet weld for added strength.Whiteline
say they do quite a bit of research and development work on there suspension
packages and after trying a few of there settings I tend to agree with what
they say.A Silvia comes standard with 4deg of pos castor and it would seem
that most late model RWD cars have similar castor and the sportier the car
the more castor.I dont know if this applies to all cars but some that I've
looked up this seems to be the case.A lot of people put a stiffer front bar
on there 1600's without the other mods and I reckon this just makes them
understeer worse.But when combined with 4-6deg pos castor,2-3deg neg
camber,some good shocks and slightly lowered springs you'll be suprised how
hard you can push the front and if you have good front tyres you need to use
a full harness type seat belt to get the full benifet of this setup.The car
just turns into corners so much better and it seems to make the car a lot
more stable at high speed cornering.One thing though,the front king springs
I bought from Whiteline were marked as Hyundai XL springs but they told me
they also suit the 1600's but when I fitted them I found they were to low
and not captive(illegal).He told me they were the springs for the 200B
struts.Anyway I raised the seat height giving me the same ride height as
Whitline recomend.Sorry for dribbling on so much but I'm sure there's others
on the list that have a lot of experience in setting up 1600's to handle
well so I'll be interested in what they have to say.
Andrew Smith
Ken Abraham wrote:
List members,I have had a look at the whiteline web site and have a few
comments and questions. Why don't more people 'cut-and-shut' their front
transverse arms? I would have thought that it would be at least as popular
as slotting the rear X-member - when you consider the benefitsIt is not
something that most people should do by themselves though (unsafe).Errol, is
it something that you could do? Whiteline makes a big thing out of the
caster angle, they seem to think the more the better.My understanding is
that more caster means more steering feel and effort and a slight amount of
neg. camber on turn-in.I certainly feel that my car needs more caster, but
>6 degrees?Why do you think they recommend such drastic angles, and what
does a modern RWD car run? They also made a very good point about a stiff
front sway bar limiting diagonal weight transfer, i.e keeping the inside
rear wheel in firm contact with the road when you are going around
corners.The R31 sway bar is slightly wider than the standard
1600/Stanza/etc.. version and it is also pretty thick (mine is approx.
20mm). So if you lengthen the transverse arms as mentioned above the larger
R31 bar 'should' just bolt in.SWEETProbably not as good as a LSD, but no wet
weather drawbacks, and very low cost by comparison.No more embarrassing
wheel-spin coming out of round-a-bouts.Has anyone got a big front sway bar
on their car? If so, what is your traction and handling like?
Regards,Nick1978 Datsun Stanza
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