Hey list, if anyone is interested i found this page that has a heap of tech
stuff on it. A good read for sure.
http://www.onthenet.com.au/~billzila/carindex.htm
Scott
Davo
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Greenbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, 29 January, 2001 16:39
Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
hey there nick
i would say that lowering a 1600 would lower the macpherson strut
front roll centre not raise it, but depending on the actual semi
trailing arm rear geometry, the front roll centre may or may not end
up higher than the rear roll centre!!
may be able to give you some more definite answers regarding the
1600 in a couple of months, as i may be using that geometry as
part validation of vehicle dynamics software i am developing.
in the meantime, i could offer some references if you dont mind
some maths! email me privately if you were interested.
wish i had more answers!
andrew
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date sent: Mon, Jan 29 2001 15:23:25 GMT+1100
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> Trevor, Errol and list
>
> I tried swapping T/arms on my Stanza to get extra length (more camber) and
found two points.
> 1. You can get T/arms with the inner pivot point narrower than stock (see
200B)so you can shim it forward in the crossmember to get caster without
distorting the bush.
> 2. The toe control arms generally won't line up with their mounts as the
distance from the crossmember to the front suspension mount is different
from model to model.
> If anyone knows any swaps let me know - but I think I'll try the
cut'n'shut method.
>
> One aspect of suspension that hasn't been mentioned is roll centre.
> A lowered 1600 possibly has the front roll centre higher than the rear
roll centre.
> This gives good rear end traction but there should be a way of fiddling
with the suspension geometry to adjust them to get a good balance between
grip and rear end traction in corners.
>
> Does anyone know any more about playing with roll centres?
> regards,
> Nick
> 1978 Datsun Stanza
> ============================================================
> From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:40:27 +1030
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>
> Listers,
>
> Jason Gray's tech page may give you some more ideas.
> <a
href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm">http://home.att.net/~jas
on510/suspension.htm</a>
> <<a
href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm>">http://home.att.net/~ja
son510/suspension.htm></a>
>
> He mentions on this page about 710 parts which can be fitted ito a 1600.
> Offset isolators (bolt holes moved 5mm), 3/8th inch longer control arms
and
> different positioning of the lower control arm mounts in the crossmember
> (haven't measured this one). This may be enough on a road car to keep you
> happy.
>
> I am currently using some adjustable Datrally lower control arms (3cm
longer
> than std 1600) and torana radius rods (max adjustment). I have 2 deg neg
> camber and 4 deg of pos caster. This was with 2 inch lowered kings
springs,
> good shocks and std isolators. I also have a big front sway bar. Turn in
is
> not bad, the car lifts the inside front wheel at turn 1 at sandown. Past
the
> apex the car has understeer as you get on the gas again. I need a rear
sway
> bar or maybe put on the std front bar. I have and open diff and 195 x 60 x
> 14 brigdstone 520s tyres. I plan to try the 5mm offset isolators at Calder
> on the 17th of feb.
>
> Nick, I like the look of the rose jointed lower contol arm for a race car.
> They don't put any stess on the pivot on the crossmember when you wind up
> heaps of pos caster. Rember the picks of the failed pivot points on the
list
> a while back!
>
> Regards
> Trev
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Errol Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2001 8:36
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>
>
>
> Andrew, Ken, List,
>
> The reason for running that much castor is that castor turns into camber
on
> turns. This means that when the wheel is turned into a corner the wheels
> gets a lot more camber from running high castor levels
>
> I usually run Caster and camber equal if possible. Five caster and five
> degrees camber and this seems to give the best steering in turns without
> needing arms like Godzilla to turn the wheel.
>
> Cheers
>
> Feral Errol
>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> <a href="http://www.datrats.com.au/">http://www.datrats.com.au/</a> <<a
href="http://www.datrats.
com.au/>">http://www.datrats.com.au/></a>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of andrew smith
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 1:06 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken,
> I don't know why more people don't extend there control arms for more neg
> camber as the 1600's have quite poor suspension geometry standard and this
> is a cheap fix when combined with adjustable castor.Any good welder should
> be able to do this using a 3 run fillet weld for added strength.Whiteline
> say they do quite a bit of research and development work on there
suspension
> packages and after trying a few of there settings I tend to agree with
what
> they say.A Silvia comes standard with 4deg of pos castor and it would seem
> that most late model RWD cars have similar castor and the sportier the
car
> the more castor.I dont know if this applies to all cars but some that I've
> looked up this seems to be the case.A lot of people put a stiffer front
bar
> on there 1600's without the other mods and I reckon this just makes them
> understeer worse.But when combined with 4-6deg pos castor,2-3deg neg
> camber,some good shocks and slightly lowered springs you'll be suprised
how
> hard you can push the front and if you have good front tyres you need to
use
> a full harness type seat belt to get the full benifet of this setup.The
car
> just turns into corners so much better and it seems to make the car a lot
> more stable at high speed cornering.One thing though,the front king
springs
> I bought from Whiteline were marked as Hyundai XL springs but they told me
> they also suit the 1600's but when I fitted them I found they were to low
> and not captive(illegal).He told me they were the springs for the 200B
> struts.Anyway I raised the seat height giving me the same ride height as
> Whitline recomend.Sorry for dribbling on so much but I'm sure there's
others
> on the list that have a lot of experience in setting up 1600's to handle
> well so I'll be interested in what they have to say.
> Andrew Smith
> Ken Abraham wrote:
>
> List members,I have had a look at the whiteline web site and have a few
> comments and questions. Why don't more people 'cut-and-shut' their front
> transverse arms? I would have thought that it would be at least as popular
> as slotting the rear X-member - when you consider the benefitsIt is not
> something that most people should do by themselves though (unsafe).Errol,
is
> it something that you could do? Whiteline makes a big thing out of the
> caster angle, they seem to think the more the better.My understanding is
> that more caster means more steering feel and effort and a slight amount
of
> neg. camber on turn-in.I certainly feel that my car needs more caster, but
> >6 degrees?Why do you think they recommend such drastic angles, and what
> does a modern RWD car run? They also made a very good point about a stiff
> front sway bar limiting diagonal weight transfer, i.e keeping the inside
> rear wheel in firm contact with the road when you are going around
> corners.The R31 sway bar is slightly wider than the standard
> 1600/Stanza/etc.. version and it is also pretty thick (mine is approx.
> 20mm). So if you lengthen the transverse arms as mentioned above the
larger
> R31 bar 'should' just bolt in.SWEETProbably not as good as a LSD, but no
wet
> weather drawbacks, and very low cost by comparison.No more embarrassing
> wheel-spin coming out of round-a-bouts.Has anyone got a big front sway bar
> on their car? If so, what is your traction and handling like?
> Regards,Nick1978 Datsun Stanza
>
>
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