I have a couple of 1600's and have found that they have different pivot points for the
control arm.One of the has a higher pivot.Don't ask me what model as I bought about 6
of them out of
various models.
Andrew Smith
Andrew Greenbury wrote:
> hey there nick
>
> i would say that lowering a 1600 would lower the macpherson strut
> front roll centre not raise it, but depending on the actual semi
> trailing arm rear geometry, the front roll centre may or may not end
> up higher than the rear roll centre!!
>
> may be able to give you some more definite answers regarding the
> 1600 in a couple of months, as i may be using that geometry as
> part validation of vehicle dynamics software i am developing.
>
> in the meantime, i could offer some references if you dont mind
> some maths! email me privately if you were interested.
>
> wish i had more answers!
> andrew
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date sent: Mon, Jan 29 2001 15:23:25 GMT+1100
> Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
>
> > Trevor, Errol and list
> >
> > I tried swapping T/arms on my Stanza to get extra length (more camber) and found
>two points.
> > 1. You can get T/arms with the inner pivot point narrower than stock (see 200B)so
>you can shim it forward in the crossmember to get caster without distorting the bush.
> > 2. The toe control arms generally won't line up with their mounts as the distance
>from the crossmember to the front suspension mount is different from model to model.
> > If anyone knows any swaps let me know - but I think I'll try the cut'n'shut method.
> >
> > One aspect of suspension that hasn't been mentioned is roll centre.
> > A lowered 1600 possibly has the front roll centre higher than the rear roll centre.
> > This gives good rear end traction but there should be a way of fiddling with the
>suspension geometry to adjust them to get a good balance between grip and rear end
>traction in corners.
> >
> > Does anyone know any more about playing with roll centres?
> > regards,
> > Nick
> > 1978 Datsun Stanza
> > ============================================================
> > From: "Pooley, Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:40:27 +1030
> > To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > Jason Gray's tech page may give you some more ideas.
> > <a
>href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm">http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm</a>
> > <<a
>href="http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm>">http://home.att.net/~jason510/suspension.htm></a>
> >
> > He mentions on this page about 710 parts which can be fitted ito a 1600.
> > Offset isolators (bolt holes moved 5mm), 3/8th inch longer control arms and
> > different positioning of the lower control arm mounts in the crossmember
> > (haven't measured this one). This may be enough on a road car to keep you
> > happy.
> >
> > I am currently using some adjustable Datrally lower control arms (3cm longer
> > than std 1600) and torana radius rods (max adjustment). I have 2 deg neg
> > camber and 4 deg of pos caster. This was with 2 inch lowered kings springs,
> > good shocks and std isolators. I also have a big front sway bar. Turn in is
> > not bad, the car lifts the inside front wheel at turn 1 at sandown. Past the
> > apex the car has understeer as you get on the gas again. I need a rear sway
> > bar or maybe put on the std front bar. I have and open diff and 195 x 60 x
> > 14 brigdstone 520s tyres. I plan to try the 5mm offset isolators at Calder
> > on the 17th of feb.
> >
> > Nick, I like the look of the rose jointed lower contol arm for a race car.
> > They don't put any stess on the pivot on the crossmember when you wind up
> > heaps of pos caster. Rember the picks of the failed pivot points on the list
> > a while back!
> >
> > Regards
> > Trev
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Errol Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2001 8:36
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >
> >
> >
> > Andrew, Ken, List,
> >
> > The reason for running that much castor is that castor turns into camber on
> > turns. This means that when the wheel is turned into a corner the wheels
> > gets a lot more camber from running high castor levels
> >
> > I usually run Caster and camber equal if possible. Five caster and five
> > degrees camber and this seems to give the best steering in turns without
> > needing arms like Godzilla to turn the wheel.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Feral Errol
> >
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > <a href="http://www.datrats.com.au/">http://www.datrats.com.au/</a> <<a
>href="http://www.datrats.
> com.au/>">http://www.datrats.com.au/></a>
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of andrew smith
> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 1:06 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Whiteline / Suspension mods.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken,
> > I don't know why more people don't extend there control arms for more neg
> > camber as the 1600's have quite poor suspension geometry standard and this
> > is a cheap fix when combined with adjustable castor.Any good welder should
> > be able to do this using a 3 run fillet weld for added strength.Whiteline
> > say they do quite a bit of research and development work on there suspension
> > packages and after trying a few of there settings I tend to agree with what
> > they say.A Silvia comes standard with 4deg of pos castor and it would seem
> > that most late model RWD cars have similar castor and the sportier the car
> > the more castor.I dont know if this applies to all cars but some that I've
> > looked up this seems to be the case.A lot of people put a stiffer front bar
> > on there 1600's without the other mods and I reckon this just makes them
> > understeer worse.But when combined with 4-6deg pos castor,2-3deg neg
> > camber,some good shocks and slightly lowered springs you'll be suprised how
> > hard you can push the front and if you have good front tyres you need to use
> > a full harness type seat belt to get the full benifet of this setup.The car
> > just turns into corners so much better and it seems to make the car a lot
> > more stable at high speed cornering.One thing though,the front king springs
> > I bought from Whiteline were marked as Hyundai XL springs but they told me
> > they also suit the 1600's but when I fitted them I found they were to low
> > and not captive(illegal).He told me they were the springs for the 200B
> > struts.Anyway I raised the seat height giving me the same ride height as
> > Whitline recomend.Sorry for dribbling on so much but I'm sure there's others
> > on the list that have a lot of experience in setting up 1600's to handle
> > well so I'll be interested in what they have to say.
> > Andrew Smith
> > Ken Abraham wrote:
> >
> > List members,I have had a look at the whiteline web site and have a few
> > comments and questions. Why don't more people 'cut-and-shut' their front
> > transverse arms? I would have thought that it would be at least as popular
> > as slotting the rear X-member - when you consider the benefitsIt is not
> > something that most people should do by themselves though (unsafe).Errol, is
> > it something that you could do? Whiteline makes a big thing out of the
> > caster angle, they seem to think the more the better.My understanding is
> > that more caster means more steering feel and effort and a slight amount of
> > neg. camber on turn-in.I certainly feel that my car needs more caster, but
> > >6 degrees?Why do you think they recommend such drastic angles, and what
> > does a modern RWD car run? They also made a very good point about a stiff
> > front sway bar limiting diagonal weight transfer, i.e keeping the inside
> > rear wheel in firm contact with the road when you are going around
> > corners.The R31 sway bar is slightly wider than the standard
> > 1600/Stanza/etc.. version and it is also pretty thick (mine is approx.
> > 20mm). So if you lengthen the transverse arms as mentioned above the larger
> > R31 bar 'should' just bolt in.SWEETProbably not as good as a LSD, but no wet
> > weather drawbacks, and very low cost by comparison.No more embarrassing
> > wheel-spin coming out of round-a-bouts.Has anyone got a big front sway bar
> > on their car? If so, what is your traction and handling like?
> > Regards,Nick1978 Datsun Stanza
> >
> >
> > --membersozdat-------------------------------------------------------
> > OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:-
> > Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > No unauthorised redistribution of this email
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm</
> a>
> > <<a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm>">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm
> ></a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listin
> dex.html</a>
> > <<a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html>">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/list
> index.html></a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/">http://www.mail-archive.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/</a>
> > <<a
>href="http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>">http://www.mail-archive.c
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/></a>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > --membersozdat-------------------------------------------------------
> > OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:-
> > Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > No unauthorised redistribution of this email
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm</
> a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listin
> dex.html</a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/">http://www.mail-archive.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/</a>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --membersozdat-------------------------------------------------------
> > OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:-
> > Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > No unauthorised redistribution of this email
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm</
> a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listin
> dex.html</a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/">http://www.mail-archive.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/</a>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > --membersozdat-------------------------------------------------------
> > OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:-
> > Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > No unauthorised redistribution of this email
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm</
> a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html">http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listin
> dex.html</a>
> > <a
>href="http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/">http://www.mail-archive.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]/</a>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au
> >
> >
>
--membersozdat-------------------------------------------------------
OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:-
Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No unauthorised redistribution of this email
http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm
http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
