How about this for a thought, On the subject of energy lost the modern internal combustion engine is only about 30% efficient that is if you put in 50 litres of fuel and fuel contains 200MJ/L (made up) then that converts to 10000 MJ of energy to drive the car and only about 3000 is converted to moving the car. the most is lost through heat. So all things considered until some one can some how use the heat produced to convert the lost energy into useful energy then what difference is a little wobble in running of an engine??
I mean if we were losing lots of energy then it might be a problem they might consider but until then i don't think a little wobble will hurt anybody. nige --- E Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yep Daniel, > The Mitsi Astrons use counterbalance shafts. They > have counterweights that > must be timed to knock out some of those secondary > forces???? > If people are looking to stretch the grey matter in > engine designs, how > about looking at the balance factors in engines. The > balance factor is the > ratio of the conrod and piston assembly masses > compared to the crank > counterweight mass/es. A balance factor of unity > would in theory have > minimal secondary force losses except at 90 degrees > and 270 degrees crank > rotation rotation from TDC where the rod design > causes some losses. I have > seen race Datto engines running balance factors as > low as 30 percent to > reduce rotational inertia. This is a testament to > the strength of their > basic design. People overseas are doing some > interesting things with balance > as most of the secondary forces are energy that is > lost and wasted. > Any though or LOL's???? > > Cheers, > Feral Errol > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.datrats.com.au/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Daniel Kroehn > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 11:43 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > Sorry trev, your right on that one! Static > balancing is only used when the > distribution of mass is known or can be measured > without dynamically mving > the system. Its hard to put what is going on in a > cylinder into words!! > Little animations make things so much clearer! From > what they tried to > teach us, a six usually has its journals spaced 120 > degrees apart to make it > balance the primary forces of piston motion. The > secondary force as I said > acts perpendicular to the direction of travel of the > piston which can cause > a "rocking" moment inside the engine. That's why > sometimes masses which > counter-rotate to the direction of crankshaft > movement are used, to correct > this. Someone told me that the 2.6l astron engines > have such an > arrangement, can anyone confirm this. > > Daniel Kroehn > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > www.Datrats.com.au > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pooley, Trevor" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:00 AM > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > Daniel, > > > > My understanding of engine balancing is that only > the rods and pistons are > > statically balanced. The reciprocating parts are > dynamically balanced. > > > > I found this link about L6 harmonics. > > http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/harmonics.htm > > > > I know from people in my club that a good quality > aftermarket crank front > > pulley is a must for L6 race engines as the > harmonics are great enough to > > destroy the std front pulley or even snap > crankshafts. > > > > The last time I saw a pic of an L6 crank it was > not mearly an extended L4 > > crank with journals 180deg apart. Although I can't > remeber the exact > > configuration at the moment. > > > > Regards > > Trev > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daniel Kroehn > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 9:51 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > It hard to get your mind around this shit, I just > had a three hour exam on > > balancing and the like at uni yesterday. Its not > static balancing like > when > > you get the pistons, rods, crank, flywheel combo > balanced, its all about > the > > dynamic balancing where froces from the piston > firing create forces and > > moments which lead to imbalances inside the > engine. Can someone tell me > why > > the secondary forces in a 6 completly cancel out > as I'm not 100% clear on > > why, I guess I'm picturing it as a four only with > two more cylinders(hence > > primary force cancelation). > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:20 AM > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > Even if your engine is built by Swiss > watchmakers with no expense > spared, > > you cannot escape the unbalance caused by the > engine configuration. > > > But of course if the engine has been > manufactured to sloppy tolerances > > then it will be much worse than an engine built by > our Swiss mates. > > > Nick > > > > > > > > From: "mark krawczuk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > Date: 13/11/2001 21:39:44 > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > hi, so what if their un balanced, anybody > doing up a high > performance > > > > engine always gets the engine full > ballanced........................ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mark k > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:30 PM > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful... :) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 13:15 > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The theory behind engine configuration is > about balance and > packaging > > > > > > > > > > A 'V' engine (except v12) is fundamentally > unbalanced. i.e they > shake > > and > > > > > vibrate because all the rotating and > reciprocating components are > not > > > > fully > > > > > balanced. > > > > > V engines are compact, this is their > advantage. > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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