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Daniel Kroehn Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts www.Datrats.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "nifty nigel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:48 PM Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > How about this for a thought, > > On the subject of energy lost the modern internal > combustion engine is only about 30% efficient that is > if you put in 50 litres of fuel and fuel contains > 200MJ/L (made up) then that converts to 10000 MJ of > energy to drive the car and only about 3000 is > converted to moving the car. the most is lost through > heat. So all things considered until some one can some > how use the heat produced to convert the lost energy > into useful energy then what difference is a little > wobble in running of an engine?? > > I mean if we were losing lots of energy then it might > be a problem they might consider but until then i > don't think a little wobble will hurt anybody. > > nige > --- E Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yep Daniel, > > The Mitsi Astrons use counterbalance shafts. They > > have counterweights that > > must be timed to knock out some of those secondary > > forces???? > > If people are looking to stretch the grey matter in > > engine designs, how > > about looking at the balance factors in engines. The > > balance factor is the > > ratio of the conrod and piston assembly masses > > compared to the crank > > counterweight mass/es. A balance factor of unity > > would in theory have > > minimal secondary force losses except at 90 degrees > > and 270 degrees crank > > rotation rotation from TDC where the rod design > > causes some losses. I have > > seen race Datto engines running balance factors as > > low as 30 percent to > > reduce rotational inertia. This is a testament to > > the strength of their > > basic design. People overseas are doing some > > interesting things with balance > > as most of the secondary forces are energy that is > > lost and wasted. > > Any though or LOL's???? > > > > Cheers, > > Feral Errol > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.datrats.com.au/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > > Behalf Of Daniel Kroehn > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 11:43 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > Sorry trev, your right on that one! Static > > balancing is only used when the > > distribution of mass is known or can be measured > > without dynamically mving > > the system. Its hard to put what is going on in a > > cylinder into words!! > > Little animations make things so much clearer! From > > what they tried to > > teach us, a six usually has its journals spaced 120 > > degrees apart to make it > > balance the primary forces of piston motion. The > > secondary force as I said > > acts perpendicular to the direction of travel of the > > piston which can cause > > a "rocking" moment inside the engine. That's why > > sometimes masses which > > counter-rotate to the direction of crankshaft > > movement are used, to correct > > this. Someone told me that the 2.6l astron engines > > have such an > > arrangement, can anyone confirm this. > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pooley, Trevor" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:00 AM > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > Daniel, > > > > > > My understanding of engine balancing is that only > > the rods and pistons are > > > statically balanced. The reciprocating parts are > > dynamically balanced. > > > > > > I found this link about L6 harmonics. > > > http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/harmonics.htm > > > > > > I know from people in my club that a good quality > > aftermarket crank front > > > pulley is a must for L6 race engines as the > > harmonics are great enough to > > > destroy the std front pulley or even snap > > crankshafts. > > > > > > The last time I saw a pic of an L6 crank it was > > not mearly an extended L4 > > > crank with journals 180deg apart. Although I can't > > remeber the exact > > > configuration at the moment. > > > > > > Regards > > > Trev > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Daniel Kroehn > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 9:51 > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > It hard to get your mind around this shit, I just > > had a three hour exam on > > > balancing and the like at uni yesterday. Its not > > static balancing like > > when > > > you get the pistons, rods, crank, flywheel combo > > balanced, its all about > > the > > > dynamic balancing where froces from the piston > > firing create forces and > > > moments which lead to imbalances inside the > > engine. Can someone tell me > > why > > > the secondary forces in a 6 completly cancel out > > as I'm not 100% clear on > > > why, I guess I'm picturing it as a four only with > > two more cylinders(hence > > > primary force cancelation). > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > Datrats, quality Datsun performance parts > > > www.Datrats.com.au > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:20 AM > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > Even if your engine is built by Swiss > > watchmakers with no expense > > spared, > > > you cannot escape the unbalance caused by the > > engine configuration. > > > > But of course if the engine has been > > manufactured to sloppy tolerances > > > then it will be much worse than an engine built by > > our Swiss mates. > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > From: "mark krawczuk" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > Date: 13/11/2001 21:39:44 > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > hi, so what if their un balanced, anybody > > doing up a high > > performance > > > > > engine always gets the engine full > > ballanced........................ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mark k > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:30 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beautiful... :) > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2001 13:15 > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Subject: Re: V-6 or 4cyl? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The theory behind engine configuration is > > about balance and > > packaging > > > > > > > > > > > > A 'V' engine (except v12) is fundamentally > > unbalanced. i.e they > > shake > > > and > > > > > > vibrate because all the rotating and > > reciprocating components are > > not > > > > > fully > > > > > > balanced. > > > > > > V engines are compact, this is their > > advantage. > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com > --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------
