Re: hey guys....LONG

[Mark]

Awesome......I would love to hear the results of your test.   I'm not out to prove anyone wrong.....or right for that matter. Suspension is a bit of a black art in my book. It's just one of those things, if there was a "perfect" set up....every car in V8 supercars would be exactly the same..... reallity is that different driving styles also require different set-ups.   I find part of the fun of setting up race cars is the experimentation, and "making" the car faster through trying different things. Last year for instance, we had a chronic over steer problem with the 1600..... I ended up pulling the rear sway bar off (15mm). Fixed the problem, and we went much quicker! It did induce a little more push in the front, but the car was much quicker without it. It's amazing how some people though could not accept the fact that it was faster....... sometimes people get into a mentality of....It must have this or that to be fast... when in reality what works for some people may not work for others...It's all about experimenting and learning the diffrences on each car.....and it's a bucket load of fun to boot!   Well.....I am off to Eastern Creek for the first round of the Improved Production State Championships...It's on today and Tomorrow....if anyone in Sydney is keen to see some great racing...come on out. I will most likely hanging around a late model Nissan Pulsar N14 (I think), come and ask for Mark.....I will be happy to show you around!   Mark.         ----- Original Message ----- From: E Smith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:25 AM Subject: RE: hey guys....LONG Mark, Softer rates (approx 16%) are better for longer events as there is less driver fatigue. It does take it out of you with harder rates. With a bit of experimentation you will find what suits your needs best. These figures are only guides to start with. Part of the fun is proving every expert wrong ;-) A good result is that I have had an offer to test my Serious suspensions performance with a Data Logger and shock sensors.  Thanks Andrew! I am looking forward to getting set up for the test but it will be a few weeks yet till I get the time.   Cheers, Feral Errol <http://www.datrats.com.au/> -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: hey guys....LONG DAMN Errol....Glad I asked.....now what was the bit after ..."here goes" LOL.......   Many thanks for the info.....I plan on running a variety of spring rates front and back over the next 6 months, once the new car is up and running. The shocks will have to be upgraded at some stage....not quite sure what to go for yet.....but I think this time round I will be spending the xtra $$$$ and get bump and rebound adjustables.....especially for the front.   Thanks again.   Mark.   ----- Original Message ----- From: E Smith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 2:00 PM Subject: RE: hey guys....LONG Ben, Here goes, Spring rates relate directly to corner weight and leverage ratio on control arms. To make any sense of spring rates you need to work out the effective spring rate at the wheel. On the stanza/sunny with stock lower arms the ratio is 375mm (pivot to tyre centre) divided by 320mm pivot to ball joint centre =0.853. On this car for example a 360lb/inch spring has an effective rate of  307lb (140kg) at the wheel. If the arms have been lengthened for more camber this rate will vary as the rate become closer to unity.   A good guide for a club race car with good quality race rate shockers, is the wheel spring rate in kg's/cm should be in the range of 16 - 20% of the static corner weight of the car. Eg - at 16% wheel rate 260 kg/0.16=41.6kg/cm or 232lb/in this means a 272lb/in spring;  at 18% wheel rate 260 kg/0.18=46.8kg/cm or 261lb/in this means a 306lb/in spring;  at 20% wheel rate 260 kg/0.2  =52kg/cm or 290lb/in  this means a 339lb/in spring   The heavier the spring,  the faster the wheel movement is slowed during bump. This also means the wheel is pushed back faster towards the road surface during rebound. Race cars use heavier springs to ensure that the wheel is able to follow the road surface at race speeds where these events take milli seconds. To stop the spring energy being transferred to the body of the vehicle the shock has to control the transfer of energy to the spring during bump and as the energy is release from the spring during rebound. It gets rid of this energy as heat.   As you get above 15% sprung wheel to corner weight rate, you need much higher quality damper control as the suspension has lower distances to move due to the higher spring rates. Once you have the spring rate at the wheel, you design your shock for damping at a range of piston velocities typically encountered in the application. BILSTEIN for example use 32.5mm/sec, 65mm/sec, 130mm/sec, 260mm/sec, 520mm/sec as their test velocities.   Usually the shock rate on bump is much less than on rebound. This allows the energy to be absorbed by the spring without lifting the body excessively and the energy is dissipated at a slower rate as the spring returns to normal ride height during rebound. This is why cars with stiff shocks for the spring rate usually sit a bit after a bump if the rebound rates are a bit high.   A good shock should provide consistent damping over a wide range of velocities without being harsh at any part of its range.   Any comments or flames?   Cheers, Feral Errol <http://www.datrats.com.au/> --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------