Hi Steve, I agree with you...!!!!
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Stephen Wilcox <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Ahmed, > I agree it won't go away and is less than before - but on your second > point, remembering a site URL, I would suggest, is not easier than > searching for the company or service name in a browser search bar or > clicking on the iTunes app. > > Russia and Korea aren't really comparable - they are two highly developed > independent markets in terms of technology, resources and experience in the > Internet field, with very advanced software produced domestically. In > Russia, sites such as Yandex (Яндекс.рф) and mail.ru dominate the user > base and a typical user with their Russian keyboard, Russian operating > system, Russian browser using their domestically produced search engine > (Яндекс.рф) which produces a list of locally hosted sites and services > developed specifically for the Russian market (as opposed to google.com, > facebook.com, microsoft.com which are English made to fit into Arabic > with few developers in region). > > I don't think these will be comparable until such time as there is an > Arabic technological centre - producing software engineers, advanced > software and hardware integration. And the opposite is currently true; 90%+ > of Arabic websites are hosted outside the region, mostly in the US; > compared to nearly all (I can't find a percent) Russian websites are hosted > within Russia fully on Russian infrastructure. > > Another sample data point - Arabic is the 5th most spoken language (280m > native speakers), Russian is the 8th (160m native speakers) yet Russian is > the 2nd most common language on the web. > > > I think is part of a wider interesting topic, perhaps one for future > debates at MENOG meetings. This is that in spite of the population and > wealth of the Arabic region, the region has typically not invested in local > innovation or initiatives or where it has it has tended to throw money at > pet projects but the benefits of these are generally felt most by the > foreign partners, works or few rich financiers who back the projects. More > Arabic IDNs, more local centres of skill, more cooperation between nations > who currently compete to produce 5 average results instead of 1 global > leader, more initiatives for local web hosting and software production that > can compete on skill and price with Hyderabad, Seoul, Silicon Valley etc > would go a long way. > > Kind regards > Steve > > > On 29 October 2013 05:12, Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Typing in URLs is less than before, but it won’t go away. And its much >> easier to remember a sites name in one’s native language and script. >> >> That’s why we are looking for ways to increase Arabic IDN adoption, while >> Russian and Korean IDN have been very successful commercially and in >> consumer uptake (see the reports Baher Esmat sent yesterday). >> >> Regards >> -Ahmed >> >> >> *From:* Stephen Wilcox <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 7:25 PM >> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* Timothy Roy <[email protected]> ; >> mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity >> >> I mean there is less interest and value since navigation on the >> Internet has moved away from typing URLs into browsers.. app based devices >> and better search engines along with integration with browsers means most >> users are not remembering and typing URLs and instead using more seamless >> methods to navigate. >> >> Similarly with the "www" point which is also true with "http://"; - many >> years ago this was necessary as a lot of services other than www >> co-existing on the Internet and there was confusion with users, every day >> terminology and the expectation of the technology. Nowadays, if you type >> "apple" into your browser you will find your way immediately to Apple >> without needing the http, www or the .com ... in fact, if you use an iPad >> or iTunes you dont even need to know the URLs, its all built into the apps >> which are preloaded into the device. >> >> eg enter "خليج" into your browser.. my first hit is "خليج - ويكيبيديا، >> الموسوعة الحرة" and my second is "خليج سيهات" etc ... but the websites are " >> http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/خليج"; and "http://www.khaleejsaihat.com/"; >> - both non-IDN, but if I only spoke arabic and didn't even understand the >> latin alphabet it wouldn't matter since the URL isn't important for me. >> >> I'm not saying there shouldn't be IDNs or that having your company's name >> in arabic isn't important, just that users are not as focussed on the >> domain name any more therefore adoption is slower since priority is going >> elsewhere ie in content and apps. >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> On 28 October 2013 16:12, Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Please elaborate on what is 10 years too late, do you mean IDN is >>> late ? >>> >>> -Ahmed >>> >>> >>> *From:* Stephen Wilcox <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 2:53 PM >>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> >>> *Cc:* Timothy Roy <[email protected]> ; >>> mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity >>> >>> >>> Not wishing to sound skeptical, but isnt this all coming about 10 years >>> too late and thats the reason for the lack of adoption? >>> >>> The device of choice is a smartphone or tablet, these are app and icon >>> based. >>> >>> Being old fashioned I still use a computer but mostly find things, even >>> common websites by inputting the common name into a search bar (or browser >>> bar - Chrome doesnt distinguish) and the result is a clickable list of >>> search results, which will be in the local script and language. >>> >>> eg the average user never inputs urls anyway, but when they do they >>> likely input arabic text directly to the browser for a search term and get >>> a list of website titles and then click them. they dont pay attention to >>> the underlying URL that much any more >>> >>> Compare to this address books on mobile phones. In the 90s I could tell >>> you anyone's phone number from memory, now I know maybe my own and my Mums >>> and thats about it.. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 28 October 2013 08:38, Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The Arabic version of "net" would come at the beginning of the domain >>>> name, as we don't have an equivalent of "www". Thus in Oman's case it would >>>> still end in .oman in Arabic. >>>> >>>> IMO, as techies we may not be the best ones to judge which is better, >>>> ie. to keep an equivalent of www or drop it. The domain name's marketing >>>> staff should decide on this, with the aim of gaining more interest to their >>>> website if promoting an Arabic IDN. Registrar's may provide both options to >>>> their customers to encourage Arabic IDN adoption. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> -Ahmed >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2013-10-28, at 8:05 AM, Timothy Roy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I believe that the Arabic version of net would cause more confusion. >>>> I think that keeping simpler is better. I know that here in Oman we have >>>> been pushing and promoting the .oman(Arabic) IDN quite extensively. *** >>>> * >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I also believe that for an organization to actually have the Arabic >>>> content and URL they need to access their market. If they want to reach or >>>> promote their business to the MENOG regions (or regions of their specific >>>> country) that have a lesser comprehension of English language then they >>>> should go for it. As a registry we are trying to promote it but it is >>>> mainly up to the Registrars to promote it to obtain more business in this >>>> field of domain names.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> My quick observations.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Best Regards**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> *Timothy Roy* >>>> >>>> *Regulatory and Compliance Unit* >>>> >>>> *Domain Name Operations* >>>> >>>> *Telecommunications Regulatory Authority.***** >>>> >>>> *Tel: +968 24574858 <%2B968%2024574858>* >>>> >>>> *Mobile: +968 93551117 <%2B968%2093551117>* >>>> >>>> *Email: **[email protected]*** >>>> >>>> Office hours: Sunday – Thursday, 7:30am – 3:00pm (Muscat GMT +4)**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed Abu-Abed >>>> *Sent:* 28 October 2013 08:55 >>>> *To:* Fahd Batayneh >>>> *Cc:* menog@menog. net >>>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I agree, the term “www” may seem redundant at first look, but it >>>> certainly indicates what is coming next is a web site. In other words, it >>>> is like a “Mr.” or “Dr.” title that give you a rough idea of the person you >>>> are referring to. **** >>>> >>>> Should we have an Arabic “www” equivalent to grab peoples attention to >>>> Arabic IDN ? Something like نت (translated into “net”) so instead of >>>> عمان.الاردن the website owner should promote نت.عمان..الاردن **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> This will likely get more attention to Arabic IDNs.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> My 0.02 Dinar thoughts ...**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> -Ahmed**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> *From:* Fahd Batayneh <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2013 12:23 AM**** >>>> >>>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Cc:* mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Subject:* RE: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I have actually seen Arabic URLs posted in public areas in the UAE, yet >>>> it is not gaining the marketing advantages it seeks.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> There have been discussions within New gTLD applicants on whether to >>>> encourage New gTLD registrants (once these new gTLDs are delegated and are >>>> generally available) to advertise their online presence using “www” in >>>> front of the URL or not; i.e. www.menog.anything vs. menog.anything. >>>> For those who might not know, the inventor of the term “www” in front of >>>> URLs has admitted that such an addition was a mistake in the first place. >>>> Yet, after thorough discussions, those involved have concluded that in >>>> order for people to understand what menog.anything is, it is best that >>>> “www” is added in front of the URL for advertising purposes. I believe this >>>> to be the case for IDNs we well; i.e. some just don’t understand what >>>> مثال.اختبار is.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> My 2 cents.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Fahd**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ahmed Abu-Abed >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:51 PM >>>> *To:* Tom Paseka >>>> *Cc:* menog@menog. net >>>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Hi Tom,**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Country code TLDs have been available since 2010 for 4 Arab countries >>>> at least. Unfortunately its not on most peoples priority list for >>>> implementing, and I have not noticed any advertising for an Arabic URL over >>>> the past couple of years (I live in the MENOG region).**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> As for CloudFlares IDNs, it would be good to filter out which are using >>>> the Arabic alphabet and know how many Arabic IDNs are actually out there. >>>> That would require a good understanding of Punycode used to translate an >>>> IDN into Latin characters.**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Regards,**** >>>> >>>> -Ahmed**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> *From:* Tom Paseka <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:20 PM**** >>>> >>>> *To:* Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Cc:* mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [menog] New Arabic TLD and idea's popularity**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Hi Ahmed, **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I've had a look through CloudFlare's customers and we see thousands of >>>> IDN's, but this is nothing compared to what exists in pre-existing >>>> romanized domains. **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> For a pre-existing company to move to a IDN, or any new domain in >>>> general, they have to revamp their presence, re-market to everyone to make >>>> sure they visit the correct address. I assume this isn't an easy task. >>>> **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I suspect you'll see new starters coming out from the get-go with an >>>> IDN, but it'll take a while for the existing content to start adoption. >>>> **** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Cheers,**** >>>> >>>> Tom**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Ahmed Abu-Abed <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:**** >>>> >>>> ICANN is in the news with the new شبكة TLD, see >>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24637673**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> I am yet to see Arabic TLDs widely implemented, although most browsers >>>> are ready, even on iOS and Android which I tested with an Arabic URL. Any >>>> idea on why is the delay in implementing Arabic URL by content providers >>>> (newspapers, etc.) ? People in the region prefer Arabic websites, so I am >>>> wondering what’s stopping content providers from having Arabic URLs.*** >>>> * >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Also, anyone know if major portals, like Google or Yahoo, have >>>> implemented IDNs in any language for their URL ? Something like >>>> ياهو.شبكة (which translates to Yahoo.net , as I cannot find an >>>> equivalent to .com as an Arabic TLD).**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> Best Regards,**** >>>> >>>> Ahmed Abu-Abed**** >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Menog mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog**** >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Menog mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Director / Founder >>> IX Reach Ltd >>> E: [email protected] >>> M: +44 7966 048633 <%2B44%207966%20048633> >>> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Director / Founder >> IX Reach Ltd >> E: [email protected] >> M: +44 7966 048633 >> Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK. >> > > > > -- > Director / Founder > IX Reach Ltd > E: [email protected] > M: +44 7966 048633 > Tempus Court, Bellfield Road, High Wycombe, HP13 5HA, UK. > > _______________________________________________ > Menog mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.menog.org/mailman/listinfo/menog > >
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