Yeah :) I think this is where you went a bit awry:
> framework that is still useful". This thought ended up at PHP. I'm not PHP isn't a framework. It's a language. Like we said, the equivalent of PHP is embedded ruby, or ERB. CakePHP is a framework in PHP. I've used it for a couple of projects, years ago. It sucked. I'd be very surprised if it didn't suck now. I remember trying to describe why I wanted to get fully clothed objects back from the model layer to the lead developer, phpNut. He couldn't seem to grok it. I don't think he really "got" objects. He couldn't understand why I could possibly want things like method- chaining for things like model-association traversals. It was painful, and I gave up on it, because it was just a lost cause. Php objects are pretty much an afterthought tacked on anyway IMHO. Now, compared to straight PHP development, CakePHP was great! (And that's saying something), and for a C developer, programming in PHP is quite literally a dreamy walk in the park. It's good for a LOT of people and I'm sure will continue to be. In my opinion, ActiveRecord is a piece of shit. Now, don't get me wrong, it's SO MUCH BETTER THAN PHP IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY. I use it every day. I build web apps on Rails for a living, but it doesn't allow you to use proper encapsulation! And just because I use it every day doesn't mean it doesn't suck! This is, in large, to do with the fact that it's backed by a relational database. However, it's not designed particularly well from an OOP point of view. In order to be "easier" for example, it exposes all of its instance 'variables' as attributes that can be accessed directly. I hate that. I'm not actually making many points to do with what you were talking about, just voicing my opinion I guess. Anyway time to get back to work :) Julian. On 17/11/2008, at 9:23 AM, weepy wrote: > > OK - again I have to clarify my position :D > > You make some great points Julian. I agree that having a framework and > a shared community following it, shaping it and making it better for > everyone is the best. > > I've been doing Rails since it came out and have dabbled in Merb > (waiting for a suitable project to come along). I'd say I was an > advanced user (perhaps not expert since I tend to avoid looking at the > source - hoping that Merb will change that POV). > > I was mostly making the comparison between Sinatra and VeryFlat and > then extrapolating this line of thought: "What's the simplest possible > framework that is still useful". This thought ended up at PHP. I'm not > saying I think that's a great way to code or anything, only that it > does have a very low barrier to entry. > > Given the flexibility of Merb I'm interested to see where this can > go. > > Hope that makes sense !! > > weepy > > > > > On 16 Nov, 21:59, Julian Leviston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hear Hear! >> >> This brings me to the point of responsibility. >> >> If you slap up some code that, say, parses some CGI-params and slaps >> them in the database, shouldn't you at SOME point be made aware that >> there is actually a large chance you're opening up the server you're >> putting this crappy code on to Injection or CSS attacks? I mean... >> frameworks represent code re-use but they also represent best >> practices which means that they help you to educate yourself more >> about problems that can occur and best practice solutions to these >> problems. >> >> Thus, frameworks FTW! >> >> :-) >> >> On 17/11/2008, at 2:40 AM, Michael Klishin wrote: >> >> >> >>> 2008/11/16 weepy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>>> Consider the approach: >> >>>> 1) Take a standard HTML page >>>> 2) Modify it to include some simple PHP (e.g. <%= $myvar %>) >>>> 3) Rename the file to .php >>>> 4) Upload page. >> >>> You can do it with a flat merb app, Apache and sftp. But rapid >>> prototyping not always equals to "write some crap to throw away" >>> because some prototypes of this sort later put into production and >>> someone has to maintain them. That's just anti humane in my mind. >> >>> So prototype carefully. >>> -- >>> MK > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "merb" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/merb?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
