Random thought for the states with no pvc laws: can you put a long stick or something into the pipes to provide traction for the critters to get out?
Sent from my iPhone On Feb 18, 2012, at 3:54 PM, "Jim Wooddell" <nf11...@npgcable.com> wrote: > Hey Mark! > > When you find out about AZ, please post on Desertsunburn too! > > I thought about placing a rock in the tops of these pipes and lightly tapping > it into place. However, I guess some of the older markers, like the kinds > I've see are brittle and would simply fall apart. Then, I thought of duct > tape. And, then thought that you not last very long in the sun. So, it just > seems the PVC is not a good idea...period. > > Thanks for looking into it and I understood where Sonny was coming from. > > Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <mina...@yahoo.com> > To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:57 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > > I agree with you Sonny - I wasn't implying that you were "anti-mining". So > sorry to anybody who took it that way. I agree the pipes shouldn't be used, > even if they are legal. > > I read the original article before writing my response but I missed the part > that said some caps have been falling off, but I do see that mentioned this > new article. That's a shame. My caps were pretty tight because I've had to > remove them to correct bad info that I carved into them. Still, many of mine > have probably fallen off by now too. Another problem not mentioned is that > the PVC beaks down and the pipes break, creating new openings... I've seen a > lot of broken ones in the field. > > It's ultimately up to the regulators to define what markers are allowed, and > if anybody doesn't comply, they will have to waste their time and money doing > it right because their claim is invalid. That should be motivation enough to > do it right going forward. They also say they can face fines through the > migratory bird treaty act. But the problem is all the historic, abandoned > markers. How do you fine people for something that was a condoned legal > practice? I think the only way to get the problem fixed is for people like us > to pull them out one by one when we happen upon them. > > But be careful, this a state issue because most states define how to mark > federal mining claims. I think the posts are still legal in some states, and > you could get in trouble for removing them. It may just be allowed in Nevada, > so ask your local BLM office about it if you're in another state. I will > inquire here in AZ. > > I'd like to point out that while thousands of claim markers are a huge hazard > for birds, there are other hazards too. Litter is a huge problem and it's > been illegal for a long time. The vast majority of the claims were staked > with the blessing of the BLM. Nobody saw the hazard before now. The article > mentions lizards. I've found hundreds of dead lizards, snakes and such in > beer bottles/cans, and many dead deer and even a live one trapped in large > dig holes. It felt good getting the live, though weak deer out of the hole. > We fenced off the hole (it was an old prospect pit). I have also found dead > animals that were trapped in abandoned cars. A lot of desert tortoises > unfortunately die each year because of man-made hazards. It's amazing what > you can find. Abandoned tires, man, what a mess they cause... Wildcat dumping > is still rampant, and I'm not talking just about the huge problem of > smugglers leaving acres of crap > at transfer points. > > So folks really should think before they leave their trash the "vast empty > desert". They should ask themselves, "would I dispose of this in my back yard > or dump it on my living room floor?". Pack it in and pack it out. It's not > hard concept, but how many times have you taken someone out and watched them > throw stuff down?... And if you stake a claim, don't use hollow pipes to mark > it, even if it's a legal method. I will not. o(:?-D > > Happy hunting, > Mark > > > ________________________________ > From: "wahlpe...@aol.com" <wahlpe...@aol.com> > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; mexicod...@aim.com; mina...@yahoo.com > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > Hi Doug, Mark and List, > > First thanks for all the great replies. I want to point out that I am NOT > anti- mining. I have been a lifelong Nevada resident and I believe that > mining and wildlife can co-exist in our State. My main purpose was to > increase public awareness of this problem. I was saddened by what I found in > the PVC marker and would like to see the problem cease. I believe many of > these tragic deaths( if not all) can be avoided. Over the years while > exploring the deserts of the > Southwest I have crossed paths with many of the PVC markers. Some of the > valleys are covered with markers as far as the eye can see. Many of the > claims are long forgotten and the only reminder are the broken markers > littering the > Desert floor. In fact our State Bird the mountain bluebird has frequently > fallen victim to these pipes. > > Here is a link to an article. PVC pipes trapping, killing birds by the > thousands "A troubling find was that "about half of those markers that HAD > PROTECTIVE CAPS put in place at some earlier point in time, now had those > caps DISPLACED, on the ground nearby," said state biologist Christy Klinger. > "So the hazard from the pipe became re-established."Here is a link to the > article. > > http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/22/8955697-pvc-pipes-trapping-killing-birds-by-the-thousands > > Sorry for the incomplete post. I have a meteorite hunting trip planned today > with a small army of PETA types to spread out into the desert knocking over > snd deatroying other peoplesproperty markers and hopefully find a few > meteorites. : ) > > Sonny > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aim.com> > To: minador <mina...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > > Hi Mark, everyone,It's too bad society needs rules but with so many humans > overrrunning the wilderness, the best way to deal with it is work on a > responsible collecting/mining/4-wheeling/detecting/etc. personal policy and > showcase it for all to see - just like Sonny - then regulations are not > zealously pursued and the offended find other causes more urgently in need > and leave us alone.I hear you, but just like everything we seem to get > involved in that is outdoors, a few bad apples can spoil it for the 90%+ of > people who really are law abidng common sense toting individuals and that is > where the regulators are forced to move, and in this case people that don't > clean up after themselfs, maybe because they died, or some other possibly > easily understandable reason.There are always people with different > priorities and I agree a bird zealot may seem over the top for a meteorite > hunter. But then again, a miner might not appreciate someone snooping over the > above grounds rights of a meteorite hunter and if enough meteorite hunters > are in areas with mining claims with enough rotten apples acting suspiciously > in a place like Gold Basin for example, the PETA bird zealot becomes the > miner and the meteorite hunter suffers.Who said, "common sense is not so > common". It's been that way since I was a kid metal detecting. Even going > back to the 1960's Handbook of metal detectors (the only outdated book on > detectors I found as a 9-year old in the library, the advice is "cover your > holes!" same principle, same danger, different day ;-) Look at the bright > side of things. It won't give the bird an opportunity to evolve into building > human tube traps that at night, lost meteorite hunters who are so cold that > they scamper in them for the crucial welcomed cover thanking their instincts > and happily fall asleep a little cold, but not frozen, only to wake up in the > warming sun to find themselves inside a tomb which > allows them to see the sky but is to slippery to lift themselves out no > matter how much they beat themselves against the solitary confinement, all > they while slowly getting cooked alive in a roman style birdmade oven, until > their shreiks of nervous terror are extinguished by overheating bodies and a > sudden onset of a peaceful dehydration.Kindest wsiehsDoug-----Original > Message-----From: Mark Bowling <mina...@yahoo.com>To: Count Deiro > <countde...@earthlink.net>; cetuspa <cetu...@shaw.ca>; meteorite-list > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 1:14 amSubject: > Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trapHi Count,They made it illegal to put > up uncapped markers, but because nobody did anythingwith the old, markers > that define mostly defunct claims (which should have beenan obvious outcome), > they made all PVC markers illegal. I think they should still allow pipe to be > used (PVC or otherwise), but that itmust be capped. And they can > still allow people to remove (but leave in place)any uncapped markers > (because they are important boundary markers). I think ablanket outlawing of > any use of PVC as a marker is an over reaction. There is astrong anti-mining > movement, and it is sad to give them the excuse to removeresponsible capped > pipes, just because the pipe is PVC and they don't likeminers. I think a > common sense should be applied. Happy > hunting,Mark________________________________From: Count Deiro > <countde...@earthlink.net>To: cetu...@shaw.ca; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:51 > PMSubject: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trapHi List and nature lovers in > general,Mining provides Nevada with the second largest contribution to our > State'seconomy in terms of jobs and money. The finding of ore bodies and the > stakingand recording of those claims is a necessity. The use of white > Schedule 40 PVCpipes evolved from first using Prince Albert tobacco > tins to be the mostefficient and economical way of marking a claim.Everybody > I know likes birds. They look at them. They take pictures of them.They paint > them, they count them, keep them as pets... and they even hunt andeat them. > They are a necessity of life certainly.So, do we have to pass a state mining > regulation requiring placing a $1.49 pvccap on the pipe with a couple of taps > of a hammer, or a swab of pvc glue andsave the little birdies? Or is it > better to marshal a small army of PETA typesto spread out into the desert > knocking over snd deatroying other peoplesproperty markers?Jesus must weep > with the stupidity.Count DeiroIMCA 3536-----Forwarded Message----->From: Paul > Gessler <>>Sent: Feb 17, 2012 8:06 PM>To: > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Subject: [meteorite-list] PVC death > trap>>That is truly one of the most amazing things I have heard.>I see those > all the time hunting meteorites and never thought>much of them except that I > noticed they > disintegrate fast in the sun.>Obviously not fast enough for these birds. > Thank you very much for>posting this and I too will leave none standing when > I come across>them in the future. What kind of birds were they? 14 is just > sadly>incredible!>>Paul > Gessler>>______________________________________________>>Visit the Archives > at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html>Meteorite-list > mailing > list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/ > listinfo/meteorite-list______________________________________________Visi > t the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list > mailing > listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li > stinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________V > isit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list > mailing > listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li > stinfo/meteorite-list______________________________________________Visit the > Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list > mailing > listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li > stinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
