Yes, Dennis.. Tee posts are a great idea. They are knotched and provide enough traction for critters to escape should the cap be taken or dislogged.
> > I have friends that have claims in Colorado and they drive "T" posts > > into the claim corners then slide 3" capped PVC over the posts with > > their claim information in baggies, under the removable cap. They also > > stack a bunch of rocks around the bottom. Lot of work, but they want > > their markers to last a while. > > Dennis > > > > > From: veom...@gmail.com > > Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:33:49 -0500 > > To: nf11...@npgcable.com > > CC: mina...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > > > Random thought for the states with no pvc laws: can you put a long stick or > > something into the pipes to provide traction for the critters to get out? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 18, 2012, at 3:54 PM, "Jim Wooddell" <nf11...@npgcable.com> wrote: > > > > > Hey Mark! > > > > > > When you find out about AZ, please post on Desertsunburn too! > > > > > > I thought about placing a rock in the tops of these pipes and lightly > > > tapping it into place. However, I guess some of the older markers, like > > > the kinds I've see are brittle and would simply fall apart. Then, I > > > thought of duct tape. And, then thought that you not last very long in > > > the sun. So, it just seems the PVC is not a good idea...period. > > > > > > Thanks for looking into it and I understood where Sonny was coming from. > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <mina...@yahoo.com> > > > To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:57 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > > > > > > > > I agree with you Sonny - I wasn't implying that you were "anti-mining". > > > So sorry to anybody who took it that way. I agree the pipes shouldn't be > > > used, even if they are legal. > > > > > > I read the original article before writing my response but I missed the > > > part that said some caps have been falling off, but I do see that > > > mentioned this new article. That's a shame. My caps were pretty tight > > > because I've had to remove them to correct bad info that I carved into > > > them. Still, many of mine have probably fallen off by now too. Another > > > problem not mentioned is that the PVC beaks down and the pipes break, > > > creating new openings... I've seen a lot of broken ones in the field. > > > > > > It's ultimately up to the regulators to define what markers are allowed, > > > and if anybody doesn't comply, they will have to waste their time and > > > money doing it right because their claim is invalid. That should be > > > motivation enough to do it right going forward. They also say they can > > > face fines through the migratory bird treaty act. But the problem is all > > > the historic, abandoned markers. How do you fine people for something > > > that was a condoned legal practice? I think the only way to get the > > > problem fixed is for people like us to pull them out one by one when we > > > happen upon them. > > > > > > But be careful, this a state issue because most states define how to mark > > > federal mining claims. I think the posts are still legal in some states, > > > and you could get in trouble for removing them. It may just be allowed in > > > Nevada, so ask your local BLM office about it if you're in another state. > > > I will inquire here in AZ. > > > > > > I'd like to point out that while thousands of claim markers are a huge > > > hazard for birds, there are other hazards too. Litter is a huge problem > > > and it's been illegal for a long time. The vast majority of the claims > > > were staked with the blessing of the BLM. Nobody saw the hazard before > > > now. The article mentions lizards. I've found hundreds of dead lizards, > > > snakes and such in beer bottles/cans, and many dead deer and even a live > > > one trapped in large dig holes. It felt good getting the live, though > > > weak deer out of the hole. We fenced off the hole (it was an old prospect > > > pit). I have also found dead animals that were trapped in abandoned cars. > > > A lot of desert tortoises unfortunately die each year because of man-made > > > hazards. It's amazing what you can find. Abandoned tires, man, what a > > > mess they cause... Wildcat dumping is still rampant, and I'm not talking > > > just about the huge problem of smugglers leaving acres of crap > > > at transfer points. > > > > > > So folks really should think before they leave their trash the "vast > > > empty desert". They should ask themselves, "would I dispose of this in my > > > back yard or dump it on my living room floor?". Pack it in and pack it > > > out. It's not hard concept, but how many times have you taken someone out > > > and watched them throw stuff down?... And if you stake a claim, don't use > > > hollow pipes to mark it, even if it's a legal method. I will not. o(:?-D > > > > > > Happy hunting, > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: "wahlpe...@aol.com" <wahlpe...@aol.com> > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; mexicod...@aim.com; > > > mina...@yahoo.com > > > Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:51 AM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > > > > > Hi Doug, Mark and List, > > > > > > First thanks for all the great replies. I want to point out that I am NOT > > > anti- mining. I have been a lifelong Nevada resident and I believe that > > > mining and wildlife can co-exist in our State. My main purpose was to > > > increase public awareness of this problem. I was saddened by what I found > > > in the PVC marker and would like to see the problem cease. I believe many > > > of these tragic deaths( if not all) can be avoided. Over the years while > > > exploring the deserts of the > > > Southwest I have crossed paths with many of the PVC markers. Some of the > > > valleys are covered with markers as far as the eye can see. Many of the > > > claims are long forgotten and the only reminder are the broken markers > > > littering the > > > Desert floor. In fact our State Bird the mountain bluebird has frequently > > > fallen victim to these pipes. > > > > > > Here is a link to an article. PVC pipes trapping, killing birds by the > > > thousands "A troubling find was that "about half of those markers that > > > HAD PROTECTIVE CAPS put in place at some earlier point in time, now had > > > those caps DISPLACED, on the ground nearby," said state biologist Christy > > > Klinger. "So the hazard from the pipe became re-established."Here is a > > > link to the article. > > > > > > http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/22/8955697-pvc-pipes-trapping-killing-birds-by-the-thousands > > > > > > Sorry for the incomplete post. I have a meteorite hunting trip planned > > > today with a small army of PETA types to spread out into the desert > > > knocking over snd deatroying other peoplesproperty markers and hopefully > > > find a few meteorites. : ) > > > > > > Sonny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aim.com> > > > To: minador <mina...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list > > > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > > > Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 11:11 pm > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trap > > > > > > > > > Hi Mark, everyone,It's too bad society needs rules but with so many > > > humans overrrunning the wilderness, the best way to deal with it is work > > > on a responsible collecting/mining/4-wheeling/detecting/etc. personal > > > policy and showcase it for all to see - just like Sonny - then > > > regulations are not zealously pursued and the offended find other causes > > > more urgently in need and leave us alone.I hear you, but just like > > > everything we seem to get involved in that is outdoors, a few bad apples > > > can spoil it for the 90%+ of people who really are law abidng common > > > sense toting individuals and that is where the regulators are forced to > > > move, and in this case people that don't clean up after themselfs, maybe > > > because they died, or some other possibly easily understandable > > > reason.There are always people with different priorities and I agree a > > > bird zealot may seem over the top for a meteorite hunter. But then again, > > > a miner might not appreciate someone snooping over the > > > above grounds rights of a meteorite hunter and if enough meteorite > > > hunters are in areas with mining claims with enough rotten apples acting > > > suspiciously in a place like Gold Basin for example, the PETA bird zealot > > > becomes the miner and the meteorite hunter suffers.Who said, "common > > > sense is not so common". It's been that way since I was a kid metal > > > detecting. Even going back to the 1960's Handbook of metal detectors (the > > > only outdated book on detectors I found as a 9-year old in the library, > > > the advice is "cover your holes!" same principle, same danger, different > > > day ;-) Look at the bright side of things. It won't give the bird an > > > opportunity to evolve into building human tube traps that at night, lost > > > meteorite hunters who are so cold that they scamper in them for the > > > crucial welcomed cover thanking their instincts and happily fall asleep a > > > little cold, but not frozen, only to wake up in the warming sun to find > > > themselves inside a tomb which > > > allows them to see the sky but is to slippery to lift themselves out no > > > matter how much they beat themselves against the solitary confinement, > > > all they while slowly getting cooked alive in a roman style birdmade > > > oven, until their shreiks of nervous terror are extinguished by > > > overheating bodies and a sudden onset of a peaceful dehydration.Kindest > > > wsiehsDoug-----Original Message-----From: Mark Bowling > > > <mina...@yahoo.com>To: Count Deiro <countde...@earthlink.net>; cetuspa > > > <cetu...@shaw.ca>; meteorite-list > > > <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 1:14 > > > amSubject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trapHi Count,They made it > > > illegal to put up uncapped markers, but because nobody did anythingwith > > > the old, markers that define mostly defunct claims (which should have > > > beenan obvious outcome), they made all PVC markers illegal. I think they > > > should still allow pipe to be used (PVC or otherwise), but that itmust be > > > capped. And they can > > > still allow people to remove (but leave in place)any uncapped markers > > > (because they are important boundary markers). I think ablanket outlawing > > > of any use of PVC as a marker is an over reaction. There is astrong > > > anti-mining movement, and it is sad to give them the excuse to > > > removeresponsible capped pipes, just because the pipe is PVC and they > > > don't likeminers. I think a common sense should be applied. Happy > > > hunting,Mark________________________________From: Count Deiro > > > <countde...@earthlink.net>To: cetu...@shaw.ca; > > > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comSent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:51 > > > PMSubject: [meteorite-list] Fw: PVC death trapHi List and nature lovers > > > in general,Mining provides Nevada with the second largest contribution to > > > our State'seconomy in terms of jobs and money. The finding of ore bodies > > > and the stakingand recording of those claims is a necessity. The use of > > > white Schedule 40 PVCpipes evolved from first using Prince Albert tobacco > > > tins to be the mostefficient and economical way of marking a > > > claim.Everybody I know likes birds. They look at them. They take pictures > > > of them.They paint them, they count them, keep them as pets... and they > > > even hunt andeat them. They are a necessity of life certainly.So, do we > > > have to pass a state mining regulation requiring placing a $1.49 pvccap > > > on the pipe with a couple of taps of a hammer, or a swab of pvc glue > > > andsave the little birdies? Or is it better to marshal a small army of > > > PETA typesto spread out into the desert knocking over snd deatroying > > > other peoplesproperty markers?Jesus must weep with the stupidity.Count > > > DeiroIMCA 3536-----Forwarded Message----->From: Paul Gessler <>>Sent: Feb > > > 17, 2012 8:06 PM>To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>Subject: > > > [meteorite-list] PVC death trap>>That is truly one of the most amazing > > > things I have heard.>I see those all the time hunting meteorites and > > > never thought>much of them except that I noticed they > > > disintegrate fast in the sun.>Obviously not fast enough for these birds. > > > Thank you very much for>posting this and I too will leave none standing > > > when I come across>them in the future. What kind of birds were they? 14 > > > is just sadly>incredible!>>Paul > > > Gessler>>______________________________________________>>Visit the > > > Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html>Meteorite-list > > > mailing > > > list>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/ > > > listinfo/meteorite-list______________________________________________Visi > > > t the Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list > > > mailing > > > listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li > > > stinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________V > > > isit the Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list > > > mailing > > > listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li > > > stinfo/meteorite-list______________________________________________Visit > > > the Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list > > > mailing > > > listMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li > > > stinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
