Hi All, You gotta love the List....It produces more fruit cakes than a German bakery.
Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc -----Original Message----- >From: MEM via Meteorite-list <[email protected]> >Sent: Jan 16, 2016 12:22 AM >To: Ann Cain <[email protected]>, Met-List ><[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery > >Hello Glyn-- Giving your claim all advantages with a cursory review: Using >your 0.22 cubic meter figure and putting in the highest measured martian >density of 3.48 gr per cc, I get 76kg launch weight and 38 Kg ( assuming 50% >ablation by weight) landing under perfect conditions. My max weight from the >data i did have in my head, 28-32kg was not far off but not to the order of >magnitude difference-- it still does not add up to 800lbs. The total weight >is immaterial in one sense as to date there have been no "meteorite showers" >of martian material. The chaos of an impact, in my mind, would not produce a >coherent stream of meteoroids which would remain together for the several >hundred thousand up to millions orbits it takes for martian material to arrive >on earth. Paired finds are consistent with atmospheric breakup supporting a >single original mass. > >I saw your extensive mineralogy and you may in fact have a meteorite-- or >impactiite but, I did not see where the mineral composition nor noble gases >plotted amongst plots of the entire range of meteorites. I don't know who the >keeper of data is for those plots but you could still plot yours on the master >graph. (I may have lots of stray data in my head but that isn't one of them). > >I think that the way you seem to misdirect technical answers and the way what >you do claim what you do, is buried amongst irrelevant comparisons that lend >skepticism to your report thus far. May I say that much of your response is >filled with irrelevant comparisons and non sequitur conclusions. Apollo rocks >have nothing to do with validating your claims. > >If I unserstand, you did some of the mineralogy and sent some off for >analysis, but you won't name or revel any professional meteorist nor >geo-chemist nor anyone else accredited who has either reviewed your work or >through their own study. Yes or no? If so, what prevents you from releasing >it? What is the shock stage if you know it? > >Elton > > > > >________________________________ >From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <[email protected]> >To: Met-List <[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:05 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery > > > >Met List, > > >I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need to >stop. I will never respond in kind. > >Do you all not know the Met List policies? > >General List Policies (i.e. The Rules) > > 1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites. > 2. Be courteous and professional at all times. > 3. No Personal Attacks. > >... > >I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. I'm >just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at times. >I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of scientists and >technicians I worked with were very professional and are wonderful people to >work with. > >First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you are >incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a >diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can >launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is greater than the mass >of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the Apollo missions, which is >approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a single mass but many fragments >from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that was impact ejected/launched off >the surface of Mars, or just below the surface of Mars. The largest masses of >the fragments are larger than Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from >Mars. > >See pg.337 > >Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity >http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf > > >You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event within >our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It is very >true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in our nation >The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The Golden Rule is >to treat others as you would like to be treated. Geologist Joe De Kehoe gets >the whole story very right. I would recommend buying his book, The Silence of >the Sun. Unfair and unjust laws are simply no law at all. It's lawlessness. >There is a higher law of fairness and justice. You can not ignore the original >discoverer. This World Record Mars Discovery will benefit the People. It's the >People's National treasure. The People are to benefit. I've said that all >along and will continue to do so. I'm doing the right thing. > >I know a greater law ... > >Psalm 24:1 NLT >"A psalm of David. The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it. The world >and all its people belong to him." > > >Geologist Joe De Kehoe writes the entire story:... >Chapter One, The Old Woman Meteorite, The story and the controversy that >resulted from the discovery and removal of the second largest meteorite ever >found in the U.S. >http://gfoundit-mars.com/owm3word.docx > > > >Glyn Howard > > > >________________________________________ >From: Count Deiro <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:59 AM >To: Gmail; Ann Cain; Met-List >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery > >Mendy and All, > >I have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. My nose is twitching and I >smell an unpleasant odor. Like I'm standing near an outhouse in Colorado. > >Count Deiro >IMCA 3536 MetSoc > > >Message----- >>From: Gmail via Meteorite-list <[email protected]> >>Sent: Jan 15, 2016 5:26 AM >>To: Ann Cain <[email protected]>, Met-List >><[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery >> >>There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some >>misguided legitimacy to your story and your rocks. >> >>You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and >>meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your >>rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial >>interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of >>scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black >>Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed >>because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large. >> >>If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices >>for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get >>past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would >>only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by >>any number of factors such as but not limited to supply. >> >>Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good >>for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is >>worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can >>only hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara >>(derogatory speech) and move on. >> >>Respectfully, >> >>Mendy Ouzillou >> >>On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list >><[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>Meteorite List, >> >> >>Recall: >>Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, >>use the same email account: >> >>Ann Cain, Glyn Howard >>gfndit(at)hotmail.com >> >> >> >>This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader >>of the Meteorite List. >> >>I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. >>But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not >>in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all >>repeatable (empirical). >> >>I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have >>contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. >> >> >>The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this >>discovery: >> >>GSA and GSB >> >>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html >> >>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html >> >>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html >> >> >>The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: >> >>http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html >> >> >>I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite >>specimens by this Passover. >> >> >> >>I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or >>vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities >>will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background >>of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at >>Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, >>members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have >>even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in >>their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I >>came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I >>couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how. >> >>The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the >>moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. >>(Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) >>We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's >>nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world >>unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the >>world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia have >>played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job >>and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without >>games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the >>discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to >>withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and >>to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against >>this wall, this unethical gate-k e >e >> ping because they didn't have the prerequisite skills or knowledge and they >> weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed >> disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an >> incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It >> could of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process >> of discovery for everyone. >> >>The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep >>saying it ... >> >>It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making >>scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect >>discoveries and intellectual property. >> >> >>"Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. >>They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., >>as anyone." >>-- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, >>January-February 2005), p.73 >>http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/conduct-unbecoming >> >> >>As it turns out I'm rather glad it happened the way it did. Nothing like >>purposeful road-blocks, gate-keeping, and disinformation thrown at me to >>motivate me to learn to how to do it myself. As the old adage goes, if you >>want something done right you have to do it yourself. The Earth Sciences are >>my background. I have the prerequisite skills. It took time but I did it. I'm >>still learning. I never stop learning. I didn't do it in a vacuum. I had much >>help and assistance along the way, from very good, professional scientists >>and technicians who were very ethical and very knowledgeable and very >>helpful, and then they did their assigned jobs very professionally and >>willingly. One day when the story can be told completely in detail I will >>certainly call out personally all those who helped me. The others who didn't, >>I will anonymously thank for motivating me to learn meteoritics and to learn >>to do it on my own. I have enjoyed the scientific process immensely. Much >>more to come. And I c a >n >> prove what I know. >> >>Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give away >>the scientific analysis and identification process to another? Why not learn >>how to do it for yourself so that your knowledge of the science of >>meteoritics increases? Why give away that joy of this discovery process? Sure >>I understand that many can't do it or perhaps they aren't interested in the >>whole scientific process, but I am. Why not go after the full credit for the >>full discovery -- from the field, to the lab, all the way to the publication? >>Sure there are tests I cannot do, others will do these tests afterwards. >>However, it doesn't change the fact that I made this WR meteorite field >>discovery, and in the lab I proved they are meteorites, proved the petrology, >>and then proved the Parent Body of origin for this achondrite meteorite find. >>The PB is Mars. I was able to prove all of this first. Others will re-confirm >>second. And others will go much further thereafter. There is an incredible >>amount of pu r >e >> science about Mars to learn from this full discovery. I would like to be >> intimately involved in that with my full discovery. I'm sure this US World >> Record Mars Meteorite Discovery will make many careers for many scientists >> for a long time to come. NASA Houston Space Command will have to add >> another adjacent building to Building 31, or at least expand, just to store >> the new Mars material. I have no doubt about that. >> >>If a tree falls in the forest and no-one is there to hear it or witness the >>event ... guess what it still fell! The event still happened and made a >>sound. Likewise the discovery of and the science of meteorites (meteoritics) >>still takes place outside of the formal controlling walls of The Meteoritical >>Society and official publication in The Bulletin. There will be time for that >>down the road. >> >>When a World Record discovery occurs on this level, you do not give the keys >>away to the discovery. I have a right to guard my discovery and its full >>value to help the greatest number of people. It is possible to make >>incredible discoveries, do incredible and exciting science, and achieve >>social justice for many many people all at the same time. It's the right >>thing to do. I intend to do just that. There is a reason this discovery was >>given to me to make. Tikkun olam. Baruch HaShem. >> >> >> >>Glyn Howard >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>______________________________________________ >> >>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the >>Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>[email protected] >>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>______________________________________________ >> >>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the >>Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>[email protected] >>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ > >Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the >Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >[email protected] >https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >______________________________________________ > >Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the >Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >[email protected] >https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list [email protected] https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
