Amen Brother! Michael Cottingham On May 7, 2011, at 9:21 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:
> I have this to say, we discussed this right after the fall, no one I know > believed that story or that stone was true. It is lunacy to think that > someone in Mifflin decided to refuse all the offers of cash posted all over > the countryside, all of us running around there, begging to buy any stones, > and decided to call someone in Tucson, who doesnt even have a website. So you > think they sold the stone, shipped it out and waited for cash in the mail? > BOGUS to the core. > Terry was offering huge amounts of money for stones and there were no > sellers. So if you ask me to believe that a local decided to sell to someone > far away instead of just pocketing $100 bills that almost every hunter there > had in their wallets and were ready to spend on a meteorite. > This was a scam hatched up by someone who did not even bother to go to > Mifflin. > I have said it before, and say it again, THINK before you BUY, if it smells > fishy, it likely is. Buy from real hunters and dealers, not those who "got it > through the mail" but can't say from whom. > > Michael Farmer > > --- On Sat, 5/7/11, drtanuki <drtan...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> From: drtanuki <drtan...@yahoo.com> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss >> To: "michael cottingham" <mikew...@gilanet.com>, >> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Saturday, May 7, 2011, 8:57 PM >> Hi Michael, Great job as >> always; thank you! >> It seems that Carl needs to come clean >> and name the person that he "bought" the material >> from? Carl at least owes us that courtesy if he wants >> to maintain any respectability in the meteorite world? >> >> From what I read the water is too murky if someone spends >> any amount of money to buy from an "unknown" finder? seller >> and cannot? remember their name, etc.? And address? A >> city? Anything? >> >> Carl how much of this material did this finder? seller help >> you put on the market? >> Carl? Do you have an explanation? Please do >> give us the whole and factual story. >> Carl I am not accusing you of anything; rather hoping that >> you will quickly clear up matters before further commotion >> appears in the henhouse. >> Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo >> >> >> >> --- On Sun, 5/8/11, michael cottingham <mikew...@gilanet.com> >> wrote: >> >>> From: michael cottingham <mikew...@gilanet.com> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss >>> To: "drtanuki" <drtan...@yahoo.com> >>> Cc: "jason utas" <jasonu...@gmail.com>, >> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 11:38 AM >>> Hello, >>> >>> Good question. I have accounted for and taken "out" of >> the >>> gene pool, almost all of the bad Mifflin that I got >> dragged >>> into. I do not know about the others. >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael Cottingham >>> On May 7, 2011, at 8:31 PM, drtanuki wrote: >>> >>>> Jason, >>>> You raise several good points and analysis. >> One >>> further question that should be asked is how many >> grams of >>> this rock were put into the market as Mifflin? And >> have they >>> made their way into the "gene pool" to how many buyers >> and >>> sellers and yet to reproduce more offspring? Dirk >>> Ross...Tokyo >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 5/8/11, jason utas <jasonu...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: jason utas <jasonu...@gmail.com> >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss >>>>> To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> >>>>> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 10:12 AM >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> My story begins in the summer of last >> year. >>> I saw >>>>> some strange pieces >>>>> of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked >> funny. >>> >>>>> People were talking >>>>> about the meteorite having two lithologies, >>> but...the >>>>> slices and >>>>> individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A >>> select few >>>>> looked like >>>>> H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs >> of >>> wear that >>>>> freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn >> edges, >>> exposed >>>>> metal flakes >>>>> on protruding corners (where the fusion crust >> had >>> been worn >>>>> off due to >>>>> improper packing), etc. >>>>> >>>>> At the time, I did nothing but send a >> private >>> email to Anne >>>>> Black >>>>> notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke >> with >>> some >>>>> other prominent >>>>> list-members addressing it, and they all >> agreed >>> that the >>>>> material >>>>> looked funny, but that nothing could be done >> about >>> it given >>>>> the >>>>> required burden of proof. >>>>> >>>>> So, I sat on my hands for several months. >>>>> >>>>> Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the >>> funny-looking >>>>> 'Mifflin' on >>>>> ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that >> I >>> remembered >>>>> seeing on >>>>> ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I >> was >>> able to >>>>> see both the >>>>> stone's funny-looking inside -- and the >> apparent >>> metal >>>>> grains on the >>>>> stone's exterior. >>>>> >>>>> I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase >> the >>> end-cut, and >>>>> it >>>>> arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. >>> When we >>>>> returned, I >>>>> promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony >> Irving of >>> the >>>>> University of >>>>> Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone >>> posthaste. >>>>> >>>>> The results came back, but Tony wanted to >> wait >>> until the >>>>> probe was >>>>> recallibrated so that he could run it again >> to be >>> sure. >>>>> >>>>> Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut >> was >>> an >>>>> equilibrated >>>>> H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. >>> For >>>>> comparison, Chergach and >>>>> Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 >> and >>> 18.6, >>>>> respectively. >>>>> >>>>> University of Madison, Wisconsin performed >> most of >>> the work >>>>> on the >>>>> Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field >>> Museum, over >>>>> twenty separate >>>>> stones were analyzed. They were all >>> L5. Mifflin >>>>> is classified as an >>>>> L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2. >>>>> >>>>> I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction >> so >>> he could >>>>> confirm that >>>>> the piece that he had analyzed was indeed >> the >>> piece that I >>>>> had sent >>>>> him. He did. >>>>> >>>>> I purchased my end-cut from Bryan >> Scarborough >>> (IMCA), who >>>>> purchased it >>>>> from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it >> from >>> Greg >>>>> Catterton (IMCA), >>>>> who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza >> from the >>> finder. >>>>> >>>>> Carl told me the following story over the >> phone: >>>>> He was contacted "out of the blue" by >> someone >>> hunting in >>>>> the Mifflin >>>>> strewn-field. According to Carl, the >> finder >>> stated >>>>> that he thought >>>>> there was a "conspiracy against him," because >> no >>> one would >>>>> offer him >>>>> more than $5/g. and he believed his finds >> were >>> worth more >>>>> than that. >>>>> So, according to Carl, he then offered the >> finder >>> $10/g, >>>>> and a deal was >>>>> struck. >>>>> >>>>> But...the finder asked that he not be paid >> via >>> paypal or >>>>> wire >>>>> transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. >> Box. >>>>> >>>>> So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and >> the >>> first of >>>>> two 'Mifflin' >>>>> stones was over-nighted to him the next >> day. >>> It >>>>> should be noted that >>>>> Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner >> in >>> this deal, >>>>> and Greg >>>>> sent over several hundred dollars to help pay >> for >>> the >>>>> stones. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, >> his >>> old >>>>> computer recently >>>>> died, so he lacks the name and email address >> of >>> the finder, >>>>> as well as >>>>> the number/address of the P.O. Box to which >> he >>> sent the >>>>> money. Carl >>>>> is also unwilling to share the bank receipt >> from >>> the >>>>> transaction which >>>>> would prove that he did make a large cash >>> withdrawal for >>>>> the stones. >>>>> I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, >> but he >>> told me >>>>> that he had >>>>> recently tried to call the finder, himself, >> only >>> to find >>>>> that the >>>>> number had been disconnected. >>>>> He was unwilling to share the number with >> me, >>> regardless. >>>>> >>>>> On the phone, Carl suggested that his source >> had >>> likely >>>>> ripped him >>>>> off, and he said that he believed that it was >> the >>> reason >>>>> why he had >>>>> been asked to send the money untraceably, as >> he >>> did; Carl >>>>> described >>>>> the situation as a "typical scam." >>>>> >>>>> He also suggested that the stones *might* be >> from >>> an >>>>> unrelated fall -- >>>>> or could be the result of Mifflin being an >>> 'Almahata Sitta >>>>> sort of >>>>> fall.' >>>>> >>>>> I can't disprove either of those ideas, but >> they >>> are >>>>> unlikely for the >>>>> following reasons: >>>>> >>>>> 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the >> history >>> of >>>>> meteoritics. >>>>> Different lithologies have been observed in >> many >>>>> meteorites, but to >>>>> have individual stones of completely >> different >>> and >>>>> unrelated meteorite >>>>> types falling separately is unique. Out of >>> the 1,238 >>>>> accepted >>>>> observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, >> only >>> one has >>>>> exhibited >>>>> individuals that have consisted of different >>> meteorite >>>>> types (for >>>>> example, H + L, Ureilite + EH, etc). >>>>> >>>>> And it's not that we haven't been looking >> for >>> similar >>>>> events; with >>>>> each and every fall, multiple stones are >> analyzed, >>> and the >>>>> simple fact >>>>> of the matter is that they are always >>> similar...with *one* >>>>> exception. >>>>> >>>>> So, Almahata Sitta is an exception. How >> much >>> of an >>>>> exception? 0.08% >>>>> of meteorite falls are like it. Less than >> a >>> tenth of >>>>> a percent. >>>>> Possible...but extremely unlikely. We also >>> have to >>>>> wonder about why >>>>> or how this hunter managed to find the only >> two >>> H's from >>>>> the fall that >>>>> were recognized. Over twenty other stones >>> were >>>>> studied and this >>>>> finder supposedly turned up two or three that >> were >>> all >>>>> H's. It's 'funny.' >>>>> >>>>> The other possibility that Carl advocated is >> that >>> the >>>>> stones may actually >>>>> have been found in Wisconsin -- and they may >> be >>> part of a >>>>> new fall that >>>>> somehow slipped under the radar. He >>> initially >>>>> suggested that they were >>>>> from the fireball widely seen across the >> Midwest >>> on May >>>>> 10th, but, at the >>>>> time, I had paypal records from Greg that >> stated >>> that he >>>>> had sent Carl the >>>>> money for the stones as early as April 24th. >>>>> So we ruled out that possibility.. >>>>> >>>>> But, I agree; the stones could theoretically >> have >>> come from >>>>> a >>>>> different fall. The end-cut that I bought >>> showed no >>>>> visible signs of >>>>> weathering. No oxide, no anything. >>> Given the >>>>> weather in and around >>>>> Mifflin at the time of the fall, we can >> assume >>> that the >>>>> stones were >>>>> picked up within a week or so of having >>> fallen. No >>>>> AMS reports of >>>>> anything in the region for the given >> timeframe >>> doesn't >>>>> disprove >>>>> anything since meteorites often fall without >> much >>> ado, >>>>> but...two falls >>>>> in the same place *at the same time?* >>>>> Granted, it's possible. Not very likely, >>> though. >>>>> >>>>> And you've still got to wonder about why no >> one >>> else found >>>>> any >>>>> H-chondrites while looking for Mifflin. >> It's >>> not like >>>>> meteorites were >>>>> laying thickly on the ground. Everyone who >>> found >>>>> stones out there put >>>>> considerable time into hunting -- and they >> all >>> found only >>>>> L5's. So if >>>>> Carl's source were telling the truth, and he >> did >>> find the >>>>> stones, it >>>>> seems best to assume that he wasn't hunting >> in the >>> Mifflin >>>>> strewn-field, because, if he were, he would >> 1) >>> probably >>>>> have found >>>>> L5's, and 2) other people would probably >> have >>> found H's as >>>>> well. >>>>> >>>>> The conclusion I draw from this is that the >> truth >>> has >>>>> become >>>>> well-hidden. What is certain is that I >> have >>> been >>>>> refunded by >>>>> Bryan, and I know for a fact that Bryan has >> been >>> refunded >>>>> by >>>>> Michael Cottingham, who has in turn been >> refunded >>> by Greg >>>>> Catterton. >>>>> >>>>> What I have heard, however, is that Carl has >> been >>> defending >>>>> the >>>>> legitimacy of his stones, and is refusing to >>> refund Greg >>>>> Catterton. >>>>> >>>>> Regardless of whether the material is Mifflin >> or >>> another >>>>> meteorite >>>>> (from Wisconsin or from NWA -- it doesn't >> matter), >>> the >>>>> simple fact >>>>> of the matter is that the material sold by >> Carl >>> has been >>>>> shown to be >>>>> different from how it was advertised, and as >> such, >>> he >>>>> should be >>>>> willing to accept its return for a refund. >>> If he >>>>> wishes to get it >>>>> analyzed and sell it to others as a new >> meteorite, >>> that is >>>>> his >>>>> concern. >>>>> >>>>> I am fairly certain that Bryan, Michael, and >> Greg >>>>> unknowingly sold the >>>>> material as Mifflin, believing that it was >> indeed >>> what they >>>>> sold it >>>>> as. >>>>> >>>>> That is my 2 cents. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Jason Utas >>>>> >> ______________________________________________ >>>>> Visit the Archives at >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> Visit the Archives at >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
