Carl said: "This stone was found in Wisconsin" How do you know that for sure Carl?Where you there?Have you visited the person who found it? Sounds weak to me. Greg S.
---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 02:58:42 -0400 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss > > Wow, > I am not going to offer any long winded excuses here. I knew the minute my > phone rang a few weeks ago that this was not going to go well. > Imagine yourself enjoying a relaxing evening when your phone rings and it is > Jason on the other end? Having never met this boy a call in and of itself > seemed odd and when you consider that this is a boy that has admitted on this > very list that he is not above recording and posting text messages from a > so-called friend to make a point my first reaction to his claims was a > question. " Jason, Are you recording this conversation"? His answer was "NO I > am not". But I was very cautious about what I said to him as I know he > probably had purchased this thing from Michael just to try and throw him > under the bus as he had with others on this list before and now apparently me. > All I can say at this time is that Jason isn't telling the exact or whole > story here. > for example he left out a key part of our curiosities. that being the fact > that the stone I sent Greg was a fully crusted and unblemished fresh specimen > that only Houdini would have know it was not a true Mifflin and once it was > cut by Greg the look was questioned at the time before any of it was ever > sold to anybody. > it was decided by others and NOT by me that this was one of a known second > lithlogy of Mifflin. > At that point I was out of the loop as the only person that I sold to was my > money partner Greg. And as Greg has acknowledged I have repaid him for what > he paid me. > This stone was found in Wisconsin and the reason I was ditched by, the finder > has already been stated. he discontinued supplying us with more stones > because by then many were offering far more that the $10 per gram we were > paying. Whereas at first our $10 was more than anyone else was paying at the > time. > Further, I am almost certain that Jason knows who the seller/ finder is. he > was probing me for proof of but as I said to him before. I was not willing to > throw anybody under the bus without proof myself. > To this day I believe this stone was found in Wisconsin and it is a > statistical fact that many many strewnfields do in fact overlap. Whether > Jason knows that or not. > It has also already been pointed out that there are perhaps hundreds of found > and uncut Mifflin's. Some of them may indeed turn out to be this second > lithology. How will we ever know unless we check them all???? > As a similar example, Please remember that Calcalong Creek was not only found > in the millbillillie strewnfield but it looked a whole lot like it as well > until it was studied. > I'm not at all sure whether it was from two different falls or not. perhaps > Calcalong Creek collided with Milbillillie while in space and that caused the > Earth collision? Again, I don't know. I was not there. Maybe they did fall > together??? > What I will say again is that it is all being fully refunded, 100%. > I would also like to say that proof beats mere opinions and opinions are a > lot like something else we all have, Jason. > Farmer was falsely accused of illegal mining. That is awful because yes, at > first by his own admission. he was convicted and sentenced for that crime. > But we all know now that it was overturned on appeal. > Yes, this is a big deal . luckily it got fixed quickly. And looking at the > bright side. perhaps it will turn out to be a second lithology afterall? > Carl > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > Meteoritemax > > > ---- jason utas wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw some strange pieces > > of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny. People were talking > > about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the slices and > > individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few looked like > > H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear that > > freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges, exposed metal flakes > > on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been worn off due to > > improper packing), etc. > > > > At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to Anne Black > > notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some other prominent > > list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that the material > > looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it given the > > required burden of proof. > > > > So, I sat on my hands for several months. > > > > Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the funny-looking 'Mifflin' on > > ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I remembered seeing on > > ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able to see both the > > stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent metal grains on the > > stone's exterior. > > > > I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the end-cut, and it > > arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we returned, I > > promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of the University of > > Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste. > > > > The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until the probe was > > recallibrated so that he could run it again to be sure. > > > > Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an equilibrated > > H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For comparison, Chergach and > > Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6, respectively. > > > > University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the work on the > > Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum, over twenty separate > > stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin is classified as an > > L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2. > > > > I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so he could confirm that > > the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the piece that I had sent > > him. He did. > > > > I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough (IMCA), who purchased it > > from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from Greg Catterton (IMCA), > > who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the finder. > > > > Carl told me the following story over the phone: > > He was contacted "out of the blue" by someone hunting in the Mifflin > > strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated that he thought > > there was a "conspiracy against him," because no one would offer him > > more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were worth more than that. > > So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder $10/g, and a deal was > > struck. > > > > But...the finder asked that he not be paid via paypal or wire > > transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box. > > > > So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the first of two 'Mifflin' > > stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It should be noted that > > Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in this deal, and Greg > > sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for the stones. > > > > Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his old computer recently > > died, so he lacks the name and email address of the finder, as well as > > the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he sent the money. Carl > > is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from the transaction which > > would prove that he did make a large cash withdrawal for the stones. > > I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he told me that he had > > recently tried to call the finder, himself, only to find that the > > number had been disconnected. > > He was unwilling to share the number with me, regardless. > > > > On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had likely ripped him > > off, and he said that he believed that it was the reason why he had > > been asked to send the money untraceably, as he did; Carl described > > the situation as a "typical scam." > > > > He also suggested that the stones *might* be from an unrelated fall -- > > or could be the result of Mifflin being an 'Almahata Sitta sort of > > fall.' > > > > I can't disprove either of those ideas, but they are unlikely for the > > following reasons: > > > > 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the history of meteoritics. > > Different lithologies have been observed in many meteorites, but to > > have individual stones of completely different and unrelated meteorite > > types falling separately is unique. Out of the 1,238 accepted > > observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, only one has exhibited > > individuals that have consisted of different meteorite types (for > > example, H + L, Ureilite + EH, etc). > > > > And it's not that we haven't been looking for similar events; with > > each and every fall, multiple stones are analyzed, and the simple fact > > of the matter is that they are always similar...with *one* exception. > > > > So, Almahata Sitta is an exception. How much of an exception? 0.08% > > of meteorite falls are like it. Less than a tenth of a percent. > > Possible...but extremely unlikely. We also have to wonder about why > > or how this hunter managed to find the only two H's from the fall that > > were recognized. Over twenty other stones were studied and this > > finder supposedly turned up two or three that were all H's. It's 'funny.' > > > > The other possibility that Carl advocated is that the stones may actually > > have been found in Wisconsin -- and they may be part of a new fall that > > somehow slipped under the radar. He initially suggested that they were > > from the fireball widely seen across the Midwest on May 10th, but, at the > > time, I had paypal records from Greg that stated that he had sent Carl the > > money for the stones as early as April 24th. > > So we ruled out that possibility.. > > > > But, I agree; the stones could theoretically have come from a > > different fall. The end-cut that I bought showed no visible signs of > > weathering. No oxide, no anything. Given the weather in and around > > Mifflin at the time of the fall, we can assume that the stones were > > picked up within a week or so of having fallen. No AMS reports of > > anything in the region for the given timeframe doesn't disprove > > anything since meteorites often fall without much ado, but...two falls > > in the same place *at the same time?* > > Granted, it's possible. Not very likely, though. > > > > And you've still got to wonder about why no one else found any > > H-chondrites while looking for Mifflin. It's not like meteorites were > > laying thickly on the ground. Everyone who found stones out there put > > considerable time into hunting -- and they all found only L5's. So if > > Carl's source were telling the truth, and he did find the stones, it > > seems best to assume that he wasn't hunting in the Mifflin > > strewn-field, because, if he were, he would 1) probably have found > > L5's, and 2) other people would probably have found H's as well. > > > > The conclusion I draw from this is that the truth has become > > well-hidden. What is certain is that I have been refunded by > > Bryan, and I know for a fact that Bryan has been refunded by > > Michael Cottingham, who has in turn been refunded by Greg Catterton. > > > > What I have heard, however, is that Carl has been defending the > > legitimacy of his stones, and is refusing to refund Greg Catterton. > > > > Regardless of whether the material is Mifflin or another meteorite > > (from Wisconsin or from NWA -- it doesn't matter), the simple fact > > of the matter is that the material sold by Carl has been shown to be > > different from how it was advertised, and as such, he should be > > willing to accept its return for a refund. If he wishes to get it > > analyzed and sell it to others as a new meteorite, that is his > > concern. > > > > I am fairly certain that Bryan, Michael, and Greg unknowingly sold the > > material as Mifflin, believing that it was indeed what they sold it > > as. > > > > That is my 2 cents. > > > > Regards, > > Jason Utas > > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list [email protected] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
