Upon re-thinking my message, I guess I'm more concerned with being able to
access this group and information from my job when I'm only subscribed from
my home address.
You're absolutely right, the fee isn't really the issue. Nothing is free,
and I have been helped too many times to count by the people in this group
to worry about $5, $10, or whatever it may be (within reason). If we could
maybe have a user name/password type setup so we can access the list from
anywhere, then that would work for me.
Bob.
Robert T. Callahan
Greene, Tweed & Co.
CNC Programmer
Corporate Manufacturing
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
215-256-9521 ext. 1569
"Jon Wilshusen"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
m> cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: [mfg-smartcam] this
mail list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
i.sdrc.com
12/19/03 09:04 AM
Please respond to
jwilshus
My 2 cents,
I don't see a problem with some sort of small "Subscription" fee, I'd like
to get the newspaper for free but I seem to have to pay a subscription fee
for it. Also, I'm curious as to what will be the cost to set up a "List
Server", anyone of us is free to setup an "Un-official SmartCAM Tech
Support" Website, List server, Newsgroup, or whatever mechanism we chose.
I subscribe to a Forum service for Visual FoxPro (
http://www.universalthread.com), it cost like $70.00 bucks a year. Or you
can opt for the free subscription which limits your ability to search
threads and other stuff. I had the $70.00 paid for with one questioned
answered, which saved me a weeks worth of trial and error. I'm sure the
same holds true for this list. Also lets not forget how specialized a
piece of software like SmartCAM is, its not Microsoft Word, which everyone
seems to have.
Let Gregg and John figure out some cost, before we start complaining about
possible subscription fee's
And that's all I have to say about that (spoken like Forest Gump)
:)
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregg Olson
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:18 AM
To: Bill Payter; Jon; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
Well its here now .... But it doesn't just come out of thin air.
UGS-PLM is supplying a server (notice it says sdrc.com) and someone who
maintains that server when there are problems and an adminstator for the
list who maintains that when there are problems, and since they've signed
this contract with me, they don't expect to continue having to do that.
They are expecting that I will take it over. I'm either going to have to
go through some kind of list vendor, or go through my hosting service, or
get a server of my own and then get it set up and move the accounts over.
I haven't tried to figure out all the costs yet but surely something like
$5 or $10 an account would probably cover it.
People have to understand that I'm not SDRC or EDS. I don't have an IT
department already in place. I don't have a bunch of servers already on
hand that I can put stuff on and extra people to do the work, I didn't
already have a website or an internet connection when I signed the
contract and I don't have a bunch of other product lines that are already
generating income. John and I are bootstrapping this thing up. Once we
get things up and going we may have to assess whether we need to go out
and seek outside capital, but we chose not to go that route to begin with
because we didn't want to have some sort of venture capitalist/return on
investment type person with their fingers in the pie.
Besides as I said, it will be credited towards any future maintenance or
product you get, so you can think of it as a down payment on that.
--gregg
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Payter
To: Jon ; Gregg Olson ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
I agree, can't see how you can charge for this mailing list, it's already
here. Somebody else will start one up if this one gets taken over and then
this fine body of SmartCAM user will become fragmented.
Maybe MRS should start another 'official' on-line help group, with a
nominal charge for subscribing but with a guarantee that your query will
be answered.
Don't forget, I make a living supporting SmartCAM, writing macros and
code-generators, doing training and programming but that doesn't stop me
giving stuff to the group for free. How many of you would pay for the
stuff I post?
Bill in the UK.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon
To: Gregg Olson ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
Well, I first bought smartcam production mill in 1989. I upgraded
periodically, and in 98 bought up to freeform 11.5. All in all, I have
about $12,000 invested in smartcam. Then, I was owner of a 6 man job
shop, now I am a sole owner/operator of my company. I don't particularly
want employees anymore.
I don't use macro's, mostly because I was never shown how, and I am busy
enough as it is to not spend the time learning. I guess they are great,
but I am just a ham handed programmer that mostly uses the program to do
multi-position jobs and small parts.
I am happy that SmartCam is once again going to progress, however I sure
don't need to automatically have a bill show up for the priviledge of
still being on this group list. These guys are tremedously helpful for
the questions I seem to have periodically. This program does all I want
right now, and has for the last 4 years. I sure don't need a $1200 bill
for "maintaining" my old product.
Don't alianate your user base by starting with charges. I wish you good
luck on this project, and I look forward to seeing future progress.
Jon Baker
Bag Parts Intl. Corp.
Portland, OR
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregg Olson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:44 PM
Subject: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
Hello everyone!
I'm sure some of you were wondering if I really existed or whether I was
just a product of John Gent's imagination.
Its been great to see the response on this mail list, and I thought the
first thing I should share with you are my thoughts on the list itself.
I've seen a couple questions on what's going to happen to this list?
Well ... eventually MRS is going to have to take over responsibility for
the list So at the very least, its going to necessitate a server
change at some point. But we'd like to take it further than that.
Currently there are only 333 subscribers to the list and not all of them
are even SmartCAM customers. Even so, that's only a tiny fraction of
the number of people we estimate who are still using SmartCAM in the
world today. What we'd like to do is make it a membership based list
that's for active customers and subscribers and other key SmartCAM
community members. That way we will be able to share more confidential
support information and business planning information with the list than
I feel we currently can give out, given the current list membership.
(I'm sure the gentleman from Gibbs who is a current member of the list
would understand.)
I see membership in the list being included if you're a part of the
'current' customer base. That means if you're on active maintenance or
have a current version from MRS that includes maintenance you would
automatically have free membership. If you were a customer but not
active, in other words, you have an older version and you're not on
maintenance, then you could join the list for a small admin fee. If
however you're not really a customer, dealer or some other trusted
member of the community (but say a competitor for instance) you would
not be allowed membership to the list. I understand that things we
publish to the list will eventually get out if someone wants it bad
enough, I just don't want to mail it to them directly.
I'd like to see the list continue to carry the kinds of technical
discussions and Q&A that it currently does, but I'd also like to develop
it as primary vehicle for delivering company and product announcements,
tech tips, support info, etc. For it to be truly effective however we
need to expand it to include a much larger segment of the customer base.
This can have both positive and negative effects. It makes for a much
larger knowledge pool to tap into, but it might also have the effect of
lowering the standards for communications on the list.
That leads me to list etiquette. This list has always operated at a
very high level. If the list membership begins to expand, we would like
to count on the original membership to set an example and help maintain
that high level of integrity. We see the members of this list as
probably being the most representative of the type of customer we want
to have and keep. Surprisingly, when we conducted our survey last year,
we discovered there are still a small number of SmartCAM users who are
completely unconnected with no internet or email at work OR at home.
Unfortunately we may have to leave some of them behind. We aren't going
to have the resources to do onsite visits. We will need to conduct a
lot more business (product and services) over the phone and internet.
Finally, I saw a comment in one of the earlier responses to 'buy
American'. I want to remind everyone that SmartCAM is a worldwide
product, and the membership of this list reflects that. We all need to
remain aware of that as we post here. Now, having said that, I think I
understand the sentiment behind the statement, so given the global
nature of SmartCAM, I think the phrase 'support a living wage' conveys
that same sentiment and honors the global nature of this forum, and is
something we support here at MRS.
Thanks again for all the encouraging responses,
--gregg
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