For the groups information in case there is anyone who does not have a website or web presence. I fully understand about cost of maintaining a web system or any kind, on the microsystemsgeorgia repository website there is cost. For all these years I have paid for the Smartcam Support Repository website to remain online out of my pocket, believe me folks, there is a cost for the server, a cost for the url maintenance from Network Solutions which that has to be renewed each year, to this day I never asked anyone to contribute and it gets pretty expensive, my domain registration fee this last time was $154.00 for 9 years, this doesn't even count the monthly fee I pay for web hosting. I put more time into things doing User address updates etc as well. Microsoft Frontpage cost a few hundred dollars just to be able to publish a single page. I have always done all of my own website work because of the cost of hiring an outside company to do it for me. I have done this as a labor of love for Smartcam, just to help keep a dream alive as long as possible. I have no complaints, especially after the news announcement made this week!
FWIW, Kelly Grills once asked me to take the mail archive and run it when there was a changeover, I declined because I just couldn't add more time and expense. Believe me, the time adds up really fast when you are running a business at the same time.
Gregg, I don't see how you can do the change over for that small fee but I do understand that there is no profit making involved at that rate.
Let me know when and where to send this very nominal fee and it is on the way.
Michael
Gregg Olson wrote:
Well its here now .... But it doesn't just come out of thin air. UGS-PLM is supplying a server (notice it says sdrc.com) and someone who maintains that server when there are problems and an adminstator for the list who maintains that when there are problems, and since they've signed this contract with me, they don't expect to continue having to do that. They are expecting that I will take it over. I'm either going to have to go through some kind of list vendor, or go through my hosting service, or get a server of my own and then get it set up and move the accounts over. I haven't tried to figure out all the costs yet but surely something like $5 or $10 an account would probably cover it. People have to understand that I'm not SDRC or EDS. I don't have an IT department already in place. I don't have a bunch of servers already on hand that I can put stuff on and extra people to do the work, I didn't already have a website or an internet connection when I signed the contract and I don't have a bunch of other product lines that are already generating income. John and I are bootstrapping this thing up. Once we get things up and going we may have to assess whether we need to go out and seek outside capital, but we chose not to go that route to begin with because we didn't want to have some sort of venture capitalist/return on investment type person with their fingers in the pie. Besides as I said, it will be credited towards any future maintenance or product you get, so you can think of it as a down payment on that. --gregg
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Payter <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jon <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; Gregg Olson <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:16 AM Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
I agree, can't see how you can charge for this mailing list, it's
already here. Somebody else will start one up if this one gets taken
over and then this fine body of SmartCAM user will become fragmented.
Maybe MRS should start another 'official' on-line help group, with a
nominal charge for subscribing but with a guarantee that your query
will be answered.
Don't forget, I make a living supporting SmartCAM, writing macros
and code-generators, doing training and programming but that doesn't
stop me giving stuff to the group for free. How many of you would
pay for the stuff I post?
Bill in the UK.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jon <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Gregg Olson <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
Well, I first bought smartcam production mill in 1989. I
upgraded periodically, and in 98 bought up to freeform 11.5. All
in all, I have about $12,000 invested in smartcam. Then, I
was owner of a 6 man job shop, now I am a sole owner/operator of
my company. I don't particularly want employees anymore.
I don't use macro's, mostly because I was never shown how, and I
am busy enough as it is to not spend the time learning. I guess
they are great, but I am just a ham handed programmer that
mostly uses the program to do multi-position jobs and small parts.
I am happy that SmartCam is once again going to progress,
however I sure don't need to automatically have a bill show up
for the priviledge of still being on this group list. These
guys are tremedously helpful for the questions I seem to have
periodically. This program does all I want right now, and has
for the last 4 years. I sure don't need a $1200 bill for
"maintaining" my old product.
Don't alianate your user base by starting with charges. I wish
you good luck on this project, and I look forward to seeing
future progress.
Jon Baker
Bag Parts Intl. Corp.
Portland, OR
----- Original Message ----- From: Gregg Olson <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:44 PM Subject: [mfg-smartcam] this mail list
Hello everyone!
I'm sure some of you were wondering if I really existed or
whether I was just a product of John Gent's imagination.
Its been great to see the response on this mail list, and I
thought the first thing I should share with you are my
thoughts on the list itself.
I've seen a couple questions on what's going to happen to
this list?
Well ... eventually MRS is going to have to take over
responsibility for the list So at the very least, its
going to necessitate a server change at some point. But
we'd like to take it further than that. Currently there are
only 333 subscribers to the list and not all of them are
even SmartCAM customers. Even so, that's only a tiny
fraction of the number of people we estimate who are still
using SmartCAM in the world today. What we'd like to do is
make it a membership based list that's for active customers
and subscribers and other key SmartCAM community members. That way we will be able to share more confidential support
information and business planning information with the list
than I feel we currently can give out, given the current
list membership. (I'm sure the gentleman from Gibbs who is
a current member of the list would understand.)
I see membership in the list being included if you're a part
of the 'current' customer base. That means if you're on
active maintenance or have a current version from MRS that
includes maintenance you would automatically have
free membership. If you were a customer but not active, in
other words, you have an older version and you're not on
maintenance, then you could join the list for a small admin
fee. If however you're not really a customer, dealer or
some other trusted member of the community (but say a
competitor for instance) you would not be allowed membership
to the list. I understand that things we publish to the
list will eventually get out if someone wants it bad
enough, I just don't want to mail it to them directly.
I'd like to see the list continue to carry the kinds of
technical discussions and Q&A that it currently does, but
I'd also like to develop it as primary vehicle for
delivering company and product announcements, tech tips,
support info, etc. For it to be truly effective however we
need to expand it to include a much larger segment of the
customer base. This can have both positive and negative
effects. It makes for a much larger knowledge pool to tap
into, but it might also have the effect of lowering the
standards for communications on the list.
That leads me to list etiquette. This list has always
operated at a very high level. If the list membership
begins to expand, we would like to count on the original
membership to set an example and help maintain that high
level of integrity. We see the members of this list as
probably being the most representative of the type of
customer we want to have and keep. Surprisingly, when we
conducted our survey last year, we discovered there are
still a small number of SmartCAM users who are completely
unconnected with no internet or email at work OR at home. Unfortunately we may have to leave some of them behind. We
aren't going to have the resources to do onsite visits. We
will need to conduct a lot more business (product and
services) over the phone and internet.
Finally, I saw a comment in one of the earlier responses
to 'buy American'. I want to remind everyone that SmartCAM
is a worldwide product, and the membership of this list
reflects that. We all need to remain aware of that as we
post here. Now, having said that, I think I understand the
sentiment behind the statement, so given the global nature
of SmartCAM, I think the phrase 'support a living wage'
conveys that same sentiment and honors the global nature of
this forum, and is something we support here at MRS.
Thanks again for all the encouraging responses,
--gregg
--
Michael Gailey Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming 3D modeling for Product Design and Development http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm
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