On Thursday 30 July 2009, Frank D. wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 July 2009, Frank D. wrote:
>> Onboard video also doesn't stop you from getting
>> another video card.
>
> I've had motherboards in which it wasn't possible to disable the
> onboard video. It still allowed adding another videocard, but
> then created IRQ conflicts.
IRQ conflicts? Can you please explain how and what the effects of
that were? I've also never seen a motherboard where it was
impossible to disable the onboard video.. regardless, I fail to see
how you could even have an IRQ conflict on a system that isn't 15
years old.
You can. On some hardware there are particular slots that are locked
to share an IRQ with onboard resources. Sometimes IRQ sharing works
okay, sometimes it doesn't. Video is one area where that's definitely
undesired. I've run into boards where there was only one slot
available for adding a videocard that had to share an IRQ with onboard
resources.
So, you had no video output? Slow drawing speed? Stuttering and crashing?
What board did you have that you couldn't disable onboard video on?
>> In what way is an nVidia 8 series GPU "troublesome," to support
>> under Linux?
>
> At the time Joe got the board that blew up the default kernel
> that came with Ubuntu didn't contain a driver necessary to get
> the board working under Linux. To install it, he would have had
> to know how to build an custom kernel [that contained the driver
> for it] using a *another* system and then how to either build a
> boot disk or a custom Ubuntu install CD. I consider neither of
> these things to be common knowledge.
What driver?
It was a chipset driver -- I believe for the northbridge.
The nVidia driver doesn't require a custom kernel,
only that you have agpgart if it's an AGP system.
IIRC the missing driver wasn't for video. Remember that motherboard
chipsets are also used for SATA, network support, etc, and driver
support in the kernel for it is required. Even if driver support for
the chip is available, the driver still needs updating for new
hardware IDs for the driver to recognize the hardware. [For an
example, have a look at the "alias" list from the output of
'/sbin/modinfo e1000']
Of course.
AFAIK Ubuntu
kernels already export the needed symbols and have the pci_find
functions. Regardless, if he asked in the mailing list I know I'd
help him out with a config, even to the point of sending him a
configured or even built kernel/modules in a tarball.. I'm also
sure that I'm not the only one who would do it. Is that really that
troublesome?
Yes. These problems still happen today -- yet name the last time
someone asked for help with them on the mailing list.
They ask in forums plenty, that's still support and they still have people
that will help.
Even if Ubuntu did lack the required kernel options I
hardly blame that on Linux in general.
Right. This happens because the pipeline for new hardware support to
show up in distros is about six months (at best).
I wouldn't really know, I try to stay away from the 'easy-to-use,' distros.
>> What qualifies as a hefty CPU? Is an X2 5200+ Brisbane "hefty"?
>
> When I try to play 1080p on a single 2.8 GHz core it cannot keep
> up.
A 2.8GHz AMD, or Pentium 4, or something else?
It obvously doesn't matter -- regardless of what it was you'd tell me
to replace it with something with more cores.
No, if it was a 2.8GHz AMD, I'd be surprised that it can't do 1080p. Nice
not answering the question, though. If you said it was an AMD 64, the answer
would at least tell me definitively that a 2.8GHz AMD is not in fact fast
enough. I was seeking information, you seem more interested in just arguing.
But knowing how uncommon single core 2.8GHz AMDs are, I assume it was a P4..
that's the best I can do unless you answer me.
>> How old are the nVidia cards? I don't have any problem with the
>> 7-series, 185.14 is the newest driver IIRC, I just installed it.
>
> Tell me that again a couple of years from now.
I seriously doubt I'll still be running an AGP board in a couple
years, won't be worth the power. That machine is DEFINITELY getting
a new motherboard sometime soon. Besides, the 6150 is HOW old
already anyway?? C'mon! It's 3 generations of nVidia tech old!
There are boxes I support that are old enough that they cannot support
newer Nvidia cards, but the people using them don't feel any need to
replace the hardware. Based on your earlier comments, your answer to
this is would be "throw it all away and buy new". There does come a
point where that might be the best option, but that's for the owners
of the hardware to decide. There's no need to preach that -- owners
will replace hardware (if they're able) when they run into its
limitations. When they do, that's when I _suggest_ replacing the
hardware. I don't try to make other people's decisions for them.
This was about someone buying new components, to which I still believe he is
best off with onboard video and a faster processor.. which would be the same
net cost and do what he needs while giving him overall greater system
performance. I stated what I would do. Regardless, the nForce4 board is
already 4 years old.
I don't mean to sound excessively argumentative, I actually am at a
loss as to what you mean by some of your comments. Beyond that, I
do disagree on a few points. I hope this is coming across as a
friendly (and constructive?) conversation.
It isn't -- in either sense. It's coming across as an attitude of
hardware elitism.
Hardware elitism? I think that may be a bit harsh. I'm hardly elitist, just
trying to make the best recommendation I can, you've turned this into
something else. If I disagree, I must be elitist? :)
-Frank
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