On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Ross Kuhns
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Well, if the pump shaft broke or something, I still
think you should just pull the belt and see if it
spins very freely, or grinds or does some damned
'wrong' thing.
Didn't you have the timing belt done recently? did
they do the water pump too? should be under warranty
'if' it is the pump...
Ross
On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote:
> On 4/11/2011 9:00 PM, Donni wrote:
>> Sounds water pump-y.....
>>
>>
>
> Grumble. So it would seem. Anything else I
*should* be fixing while I'm in there?
> 1) water pump
> 2) timing belt / seals
> 3) ?
>
> Bruce
>
>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Bruce
Labitt<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/11/2011 7:05 PM, Larry Alster wrote:
>>>> For the freeze plug to be your problem you would
have to be losing fluid
>>>> from the system. Are you??
>>>>
>>> No, I have no visible leak. I am unaware of any
leak. My first indication of trouble was an overheat
this spring. I let it idle to warm up. While I was
doing something else I noticed the rad cap geysering.
I shut it down rather quickly. When it cooled down,
I refilled the radiator. Fired it up again and it
overheats.
>>>
>>> Tried running without the cap. Did not see
evidence of obvious flow in radiator. No obvious
bubbles like a bad head gasket leak to coolant.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>> Larry Alster
>>>>
>>>> 91 Miata White Knight
>>>> 92 Miata Silver Bullet
>>>> 92 Miata Honey B
>>>> 04 MSM MX-5 Whooosh
>>>> 06 WRX STi Subie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf
Of Bruce Labitt
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:04 PM
>>>> To: MiataPower
>>>> Subject: Re: Diagnosing Bad Water Pump, or Heater
Core or?
>>>>
>>>> On 4/11/2011 12:16 PM, Donni Howell wrote:
>>>>> I may have missed it among all the replies, but
I didn't
>>>>> see any mention of core plugs (freeze
plug/expansion plug
>>>>> or whatever you choose to call them). I had a
'96 that
>>>>> would overheat all the time. I chased the
problem for
>>>>> almost a year. Replaced radiator, cap, had recently
>>>>> replaced water pump. Nothing worked and I had
given up. I
>>>>> lost some coolant but never found a leak.
>>>>>
>>>>> One day while doing some suspension work on the
left side
>>>>> of the car, I noticed a rusty streak on the side
of the
>>>>> block - under the exhaust manifold. I followed
that up to
>>>>> a hole in the block where a core plug used to
live. It was
>>>>> a hidden leak that must have burned off any
trace of water
>>>>> while driving, so I never saw any water on the
ground. I
>>>>> replaced it with one from Mazda (2 from NAPA
wouldn't fit
>>>>> for some reason) and problem solved.
>>>>>
>>>> Nahh, did not even think about freeze plugs. Did you
>>>> replace them with the engine in the car?
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 9:58 PM, bill zimmerman
>>>>> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Now we're at the root of the problem, why did it
>>>>> overheat, not because of
>>>>> the heater core. It may have had a bad radiator,
>>>>> leaking and you didn't
>>>>> notice it, or it might be a bad water pump, also
>>>>> leaking and you didn't
>>>>> notice it, either way, low on coolant and
overheating.
>>>>> Very good chance you
>>>>> have a warped head and leaking head gasket
at this
>>>>> point, check for water in
>>>>> the oil, oil residue in the radiator, and do a
>>>>> compression check. Go forward
>>>>> from there, from the way you describe it I'm
pretty
>>>>> sure you are going to
>>>>> find a head gasket problem. BZ
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>] On Behalf
>>>>> Of Bruce Labitt
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:59 PM
>>>>> To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Diagnosing Bad Water Pump, or
Heater Core or?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/10/2011 7:42 PM, bill zimmerman wrote:
>>>>> > Late coming in on this and have not read
other posts
>>>>> but if your problem
>>>>> > came after any cooling system work, hose
>>>>> replacement, etc, make sure you
>>>>> > don't have an air lock in the system, which
>>>>> frequently will result in no
>>>>> > heat from the heater while everything else
functions
>>>>> normally. Would not
>>>>> > suspect a water pump problem if the motor is not
>>>>> overheating or signs of
>>>>> > leakage around the pump. BZ
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Original problem - overheat - radiator cap
let go -
>>>>> coolant
>>>>> everywhere. Replaced cap, added water -
trouble ever
>>>>> since. Engine overheats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could be air lock. How do you get rid of
it? I used a
>>>>> coolant funnel attached to radiator cap.
Attempted to
>>>>> squeeze hoses... Car is not level right
now. Front
>>>>> end is
>>>>> on jackstands. Problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> > [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>] On Behalf
>>>>> Of Bruce Labitt
>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:22 PM
>>>>> > To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> > Subject: Re: Diagnosing Bad Water Pump, or
Heater
>>>>> Core or?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 4/10/2011 5:25 PM, Ross Kuhns wrote:
>>>>> >> If the hoses are only a year old, they
should come off;
>>>>> >> take a pair of slotted type pliers/grips
and you can
>>>>> >> usually work them back and forth a touch as
you pull -
>>>>> >> tool is set perpendicular to the pipe/hose.
Of course
>>>>> >> don't squeeze too hard, those pipes are
soft. If
>>>>> you try
>>>>> >> to confirm flow thru the core, make sure
not to use too
>>>>> >> much psi, system doesn't run under too much
>>>>> pressure (what
>>>>> >> 13psi?).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Ross
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Apr 10, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Ken Bogart wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> I would flush the heater core to verify
flow. If its
>>>>> >>> blocked and needs replacement, a temporary
bypass will
>>>>> >>> certainly work to keep you on the road.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Ken Bogart
>>>>> >>>
-----------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >>> 96 Montego Blue FFS Coldside (His)
>>>>> >>> 97 Black& Tan (Hers)
>>>>> >>> 90 Crystal White (sons)
>>>>> >>>
------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >>> http://www.miatacare.com
<http://www.miatacare.com/><http://www.miatacare.com/>
>>>>> >>> http://www.cincimiata.com
<http://www.cincimiata.com/><http://www.cincimiata.com/>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> http://www.bcchallenger.org
<http://www.bcchallenger.org/><http://www.bcchallenger.org/>
>>>>> >>> MiataMail.com<http://MiataMail.com
<http://miatamail.com/>> list owner
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Bruce Labitt
>>>>> >>> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I'm trying to diagnose if I have
either a bad
>>>>> water
>>>>> >>> pump, or just a clogged heater core. The
>>>>> hose at the
>>>>> >>> output of the heater core has been
spliced to
>>>>> insert
>>>>> >>> a GM temperature sensor in the line.
[Other
>>>>> than the
>>>>> >>> temp sensor splice, the cooling
system is stock.]
>>>>> >>> The GM sensor is reading correctly - it
>>>>> reads cold
>>>>> >>> and the heater line *is* cold.
However, at
>>>>> the back
>>>>> >>> of the head, the sensor which goes to the
>>>>> dash reads
>>>>> >>> very hot (after the engine has warmed
up, of
>>>>> course).
>>>>> >>> It is as if there is no flow out the
back of
>>>>> the head.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Things I've tried:
>>>>> >>> 0. Removed thermostat, put housing
back. Still
>>>>> >>> overheats. Have new tstat, but have not
>>>>> installed.
>>>>> >>> 1. Remove GM sensor splice, and
inspect the
>>>>> inline
>>>>> >>> housing. Can see daylight through
the hose
>>>>> >>> connections. Conclusion: temp sensor
housing
>>>>> is not
>>>>> >>> clogged and not impeding coolant flow.
>>>>> >>> 2. Added classic coolant flush tee
in place
>>>>> of the
>>>>> >>> inline temp sensor. Flushed 12
gallons thru
>>>>> system.
>>>>> >>> Pretty ugly looking coolant, if I
must say
>>>>> so. It
>>>>> >>> still does not quite look like clean
water,
>>>>> but it is
>>>>> >>> far more water like than before.
>>>>> >>> 3. Put back GM temp sensor.
>>>>> >>> 4. Refilled with water. Installed a
burp
>>>>> bucket on
>>>>> >>> radiator, ran engine. Filled bucket
1/3 way.
>>>>> Bottom
>>>>> >>> rad hose does not seem like it is full of
>>>>> coolant.
>>>>> >>> Feels like it is not uniformly hot.
Tried
>>>>> squeezing
>>>>> >>> hoses, etc to burp. Not much
happened with
>>>>> respect
>>>>> >>> to coolant level. Engine heated up -
back of head
>>>>> >>> sensor showed quite warm - heater
core loop quite
>>>>> >>> cool to the touch.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> What I'm going to do next:
>>>>> >>> 1. Bypass heater core. Is there an
'easy'
>>>>> way to
>>>>> >>> get these hoses off? I cut them when I
>>>>> replaced them
>>>>> >>> last summer. Are they 'welded' on by now?
>>>>> >>> 2. Maybe, flush core, if above works.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Anything else?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
_______________________________________________
>>>>> >>> Miatapower mailing list
>>>>> >>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
_______________________________________________
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>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>><mailto:[email protected]
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>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>
http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>> > Well, I didn't quite do things in order. I
flushed the
>>>>> > heater core. (Pulled heater hoses, attached
garden hose
>>>>> > with anti-backflow to one side, attached 6
foot hose to
>>>>> > bucket on the other side.) Nasty, but
eventually
>>>>> ran sort
>>>>> > of clear. So it is NOT the heater core.
Loads of
>>>>> water ran
>>>>> > through it - it does not appear to be a
restriction. No
>>>>> > water in the cabin, either - thank goodness.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Then I back flushed the head. In the water
neck in
>>>>> the back
>>>>> > of the head - out the other pipe to the
heater core.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hooked everything up again. Filled through
burping
>>>>> funnel.
>>>>> > No apparent flow through the core. However, the
>>>>> thermostat
>>>>> > is NOT installed.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is the thermostat required for the heater
core to
>>>>> get water
>>>>> > flow?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have a standard new Stant thermostat. Do
I need
>>>>> to drill
>>>>> > out the 'jiggler'? Hole size? Hole is up,
correct?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is there a good test for a water pump?
Looks like I'm
>>>>> > running out of ideas. Carried off 50 gallons of
>>>>> 'water'.
>>>>> > What a fruitless day.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Got insight?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Miatapower mailing list
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>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith
have no
>>>>> monopoly of virtue..."
>>>>> -Queen Elizabeth II
>>>>>
>>>>>
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