Just to clarify Bruce, by 'pull the belt' I meant the drive belt - the one that drives the alternator and waterpump, not the timing belt.
I was kicking this around, wouldn't it be a fun test if you could take that belt off maybe pull the pulley itself (3 screws) and hook a drill up to it - see if you get water flow thru the radiator when cold; and it should go as you have the thermostat out. Would it work? R On Apr 12, 2011, at 6:06 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: > On 4/11/2011 10:24 PM, Ross Kuhns wrote: >> Well, if the pump shaft broke or something, I still think you should just >> pull the belt and see if it spins very freely, or grinds or does some damned >> 'wrong' thing. >> > > You can be certain, I'll check, when I get in there. > >> Didn't you have the timing belt done recently? did they do the water pump >> too? should be under warranty 'if' it is the pump... >> >> > > The timing belt was done long ago at 60K. Now at 105K. Only put on less > than 5K a year lately. Just summer duty. I honestly don't even remember > anything about the water pump. I did have a 'real' miata mechanic work on > it. I *hope* I had the pump replaced. I can't find the receipt anymore. > >> Ross >> >> On Apr 11, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: >> >>> On 4/11/2011 9:00 PM, Donni wrote: >>>> Sounds water pump-y..... >>>> >>>> >>> Grumble. So it would seem. Anything else I *should* be fixing while I'm >>> in there? >>> 1) water pump >>> 2) timing belt / seals >>> 3) ? >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>>> On Apr 11, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Bruce Labitt<[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 4/11/2011 7:05 PM, Larry Alster wrote: >>>>>> For the freeze plug to be your problem you would have to be losing fluid >>>>>> from the system. Are you?? >>>>>> >>>>> No, I have no visible leak. I am unaware of any leak. My first >>>>> indication of trouble was an overheat this spring. I let it idle to warm >>>>> up. While I was doing something else I noticed the rad cap geysering. I >>>>> shut it down rather quickly. When it cooled down, I refilled the >>>>> radiator. Fired it up again and it overheats. >>>>> >>>>> Tried running without the cap. Did not see evidence of obvious flow in >>>>> radiator. No obvious bubbles like a bad head gasket leak to coolant. >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>>> Larry Alster >>>>>> >>>>>> 91 Miata White Knight >>>>>> 92 Miata Silver Bullet >>>>>> 92 Miata Honey B >>>>>> 04 MSM MX-5 Whooosh >>>>>> 06 WRX STi Subie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Labitt >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:04 PM >>>>>> To: MiataPower >>>>>> Subject: Re: Diagnosing Bad Water Pump, or Heater Core or? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/11/2011 12:16 PM, Donni Howell wrote: >>>>>>> I may have missed it among all the replies, but I didn't >>>>>>> see any mention of core plugs (freeze plug/expansion plug >>>>>>> or whatever you choose to call them). I had a '96 that >>>>>>> would overheat all the time. I chased the problem for >>>>>>> almost a year. Replaced radiator, cap, had recently >>>>>>> replaced water pump. Nothing worked and I had given up. I >>>>>>> lost some coolant but never found a leak. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One day while doing some suspension work on the left side >>>>>>> of the car, I noticed a rusty streak on the side of the >>>>>>> block - under the exhaust manifold. I followed that up to >>>>>>> a hole in the block where a core plug used to live. It was >>>>>>> a hidden leak that must have burned off any trace of water >>>>>>> while driving, so I never saw any water on the ground. I >>>>>>> replaced it with one from Mazda (2 from NAPA wouldn't fit >>>>>>> for some reason) and problem solved. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Nahh, did not even think about freeze plugs. Did you >>>>>> replace them with the engine in the car? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 9:58 PM, bill zimmerman >>>>>>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now we're at the root of the problem, why did it >>>>>>> overheat, not because of >>>>>>> the heater core. It may have had a bad radiator, >>>>>>> leaking and you didn't >>>>>>> notice it, or it might be a bad water pump, also >>>>>>> leaking and you didn't >>>>>>> notice it, either way, low on coolant and overheating. >>>>>>> Very good chance you >>>>>>> have a warped head and leaking head gasket at this >>>>>>> point, check for water in >>>>>>> the oil, oil residue in the radiator, and do a >>>>>>> compression check. Go forward >>>>>>> from there, from the way you describe it I'm pretty >>>>>>> sure you are going to >>>>>>> find a head gasket problem. BZ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf >>>>>>> Of Bruce Labitt >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:59 PM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Diagnosing Bad Water Pump, or Heater Core or? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/10/2011 7:42 PM, bill zimmerman wrote: >>>>>>> > Late coming in on this and have not read other posts >>>>>>> but if your problem >>>>>>> > came after any cooling system work, hose >>>>>>> replacement, etc, make sure you >>>>>>> > don't have an air lock in the system, which >>>>>>> frequently will result in no >>>>>>> > heat from the heater while everything else functions >>>>>>> normally. Would not >>>>>>> > suspect a water pump problem if the motor is not >>>>>>> overheating or signs of >>>>>>> > leakage around the pump. BZ >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Original problem - overheat - radiator cap let go - >>>>>>> coolant >>>>>>> everywhere. Replaced cap, added water - trouble ever >>>>>>> since. Engine overheats. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Could be air lock. How do you get rid of it? I used a >>>>>>> coolant funnel attached to radiator cap. Attempted to >>>>>>> squeeze hoses... Car is not level right now. Front >>>>>>> end is >>>>>>> on jackstands. Problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> > From: [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf >>>>>>> Of Bruce Labitt >>>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:22 PM >>>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: Diagnosing Bad Water Pump, or Heater >>>>>>> Core or? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On 4/10/2011 5:25 PM, Ross Kuhns wrote: >>>>>>> >> If the hoses are only a year old, they should come off; >>>>>>> >> take a pair of slotted type pliers/grips and you can >>>>>>> >> usually work them back and forth a touch as you pull - >>>>>>> >> tool is set perpendicular to the pipe/hose. Of course >>>>>>> >> don't squeeze too hard, those pipes are soft. If >>>>>>> you try >>>>>>> >> to confirm flow thru the core, make sure not to use too >>>>>>> >> much psi, system doesn't run under too much >>>>>>> pressure (what >>>>>>> >> 13psi?). >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Ross >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Apr 10, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Ken Bogart wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> I would flush the heater core to verify flow. If its >>>>>>> >>> blocked and needs replacement, a temporary bypass will >>>>>>> >>> certainly work to keep you on the road. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Ken Bogart >>>>>>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>> 96 Montego Blue FFS Coldside (His) >>>>>>> >>> 97 Black& Tan (Hers) >>>>>>> >>> 90 Crystal White (sons) >>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>> http://www.miatacare.com<http://www.miatacare.com/> >>>>>>> >>> http://www.cincimiata.com<http://www.cincimiata.com/> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> http://www.bcchallenger.org<http://www.bcchallenger.org/> >>>>>>> >>> MiataMail.com<http://MiataMail.com> list owner >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Bruce Labitt >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> I'm trying to diagnose if I have either a bad >>>>>>> water >>>>>>> >>> pump, or just a clogged heater core. The >>>>>>> hose at the >>>>>>> >>> output of the heater core has been spliced to >>>>>>> insert >>>>>>> >>> a GM temperature sensor in the line. [Other >>>>>>> than the >>>>>>> >>> temp sensor splice, the cooling system is stock.] >>>>>>> >>> The GM sensor is reading correctly - it >>>>>>> reads cold >>>>>>> >>> and the heater line *is* cold. However, at >>>>>>> the back >>>>>>> >>> of the head, the sensor which goes to the >>>>>>> dash reads >>>>>>> >>> very hot (after the engine has warmed up, of >>>>>>> course). >>>>>>> >>> It is as if there is no flow out the back of >>>>>>> the head. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Things I've tried: >>>>>>> >>> 0. Removed thermostat, put housing back. Still >>>>>>> >>> overheats. Have new tstat, but have not >>>>>>> installed. >>>>>>> >>> 1. Remove GM sensor splice, and inspect the >>>>>>> inline >>>>>>> >>> housing. Can see daylight through the hose >>>>>>> >>> connections. Conclusion: temp sensor housing >>>>>>> is not >>>>>>> >>> clogged and not impeding coolant flow. >>>>>>> >>> 2. Added classic coolant flush tee in place >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> >>> inline temp sensor. Flushed 12 gallons thru >>>>>>> system. >>>>>>> >>> Pretty ugly looking coolant, if I must say >>>>>>> so. It >>>>>>> >>> still does not quite look like clean water, >>>>>>> but it is >>>>>>> >>> far more water like than before. >>>>>>> >>> 3. Put back GM temp sensor. >>>>>>> >>> 4. Refilled with water. Installed a burp >>>>>>> bucket on >>>>>>> >>> radiator, ran engine. Filled bucket 1/3 way. >>>>>>> Bottom >>>>>>> >>> rad hose does not seem like it is full of >>>>>>> coolant. >>>>>>> >>> Feels like it is not uniformly hot. Tried >>>>>>> squeezing >>>>>>> >>> hoses, etc to burp. Not much happened with >>>>>>> respect >>>>>>> >>> to coolant level. Engine heated up - back of head >>>>>>> >>> sensor showed quite warm - heater core loop quite >>>>>>> >>> cool to the touch. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> What I'm going to do next: >>>>>>> >>> 1. Bypass heater core. Is there an 'easy' >>>>>>> way to >>>>>>> >>> get these hoses off? I cut them when I >>>>>>> replaced them >>>>>>> >>> last summer. Are they 'welded' on by now? >>>>>>> >>> 2. Maybe, flush core, if above works. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Anything else? >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>>>> >>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>>>> >>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>>> > Well, I didn't quite do things in order. I flushed the >>>>>>> > heater core. (Pulled heater hoses, attached garden hose >>>>>>> > with anti-backflow to one side, attached 6 foot hose to >>>>>>> > bucket on the other side.) Nasty, but eventually >>>>>>> ran sort >>>>>>> > of clear. So it is NOT the heater core. Loads of >>>>>>> water ran >>>>>>> > through it - it does not appear to be a restriction. No >>>>>>> > water in the cabin, either - thank goodness. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Then I back flushed the head. In the water neck in >>>>>>> the back >>>>>>> > of the head - out the other pipe to the heater core. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Hooked everything up again. Filled through burping >>>>>>> funnel. >>>>>>> > No apparent flow through the core. However, the >>>>>>> thermostat >>>>>>> > is NOT installed. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Is the thermostat required for the heater core to >>>>>>> get water >>>>>>> > flow? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I have a standard new Stant thermostat. Do I need >>>>>>> to drill >>>>>>> > out the 'jiggler'? Hole size? Hole is up, correct? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Is there a good test for a water pump? Looks like I'm >>>>>>> > running out of ideas. Carried off 50 gallons of >>>>>>> 'water'. >>>>>>> > What a fruitless day. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Got insight? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Thanks >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Miatapower mailing list >>>>>>> > [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> "It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no >>>>>>> monopoly of virtue..." >>>>>>> -Queen Elizabeth II >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Miatapower mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Miatapower mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Miatapower mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower > _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
