Hi Roz, Always good to hear from you even if we disagree - which in this case we do. Case in point, you mentioned Vaughn Cordle's well-documented posts on economics and politics affecting aviation. Do you remember that I was one of the few Mifnetters (maybe the only one) to defend his posts against a torrent of opposition from the great majority - which seemed to consist mostly of people who just could not *stand* having a member of this forum defend the odious and indefensible Donald Trump! As it turned out, as an accomplished economist, Vaughn had options as to where to disseminate his work - and it became clear that the Mifnet was not a viable choice. How would you feel if every time you posted something, almost all respondents savaged you and your work? I was there and it happened. So the intolerant majority succeeded in effectively chasing Vaughn off the platform. But did the Mifnet improve itself in any way as a result? Is there a greater diversity of opinions now, or a deeper understanding of opposing views? The answers are obvious.
I would just add that almost all my liberal friends deny there is a liberal bias to anything, in any forum. Which is why I don't expect the bias on this one to change. And btw I think everybody should always rinse their dishes before loading. All the best, Bob K On Fri, Jul 25, 2025 at 2:12 PM Mail Admin via Mifnet < mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > For heaven's sakes Bob, you and I have been in the Mifnet group for years > now, and I need to challenge you on the comment that Mifnet always has a > "left-wing bias" . Sometimes the conversations take a so-called "liberal" > bent; sometimes they have taken a "conservative" bent. I personally have > seen all kinds of conservative and liberal comments and posts over the > years. Don't you recall the frequent and long posts about politics and the > economy by Vaughn Cordle? I don't know why he dropped off, he often > triggered vigorous debate on the Mifnet, including from myself. > > Doesn't make one bit of difference to me what kind of political views you > or anyone else in this group hold, they are all informative for me, which > is why I hang on as a member, but less frequently post. Sometimes I agree, > sometimes I disagree with posts. Sometimes I post what I understand as the > facts of an issue, as in recently on Mexico. Sometimes I "delete" if it is > a continuous same issue/same thought from one member --- my privilege and > yours. As David always reminds us, you can filter messages if you choose. I > personally do not filter and appreciate reading all views. I do lament the > fact that Mifnet membership is dwindling because it kept me somewhat in > touch with colleagues I respect and enjoy --- for example, Bill Callaway > this week and yourself. > > And Randy, if you joined Mifnet thinking it would only be about aviation > and aerospace issues --- no politics or diversions --- I would like to > inform you that many times we on the Mifnet tend to wander into topics that > have absolutely nothing to do with aviation/aerospace. Mifnet founder Paul > Mifsud and I went on a multi-day splurge of posts about dishwashers and > whether to rinse or not dishes before loading. It was great fun, I thought > entertaining at least for Paul and me --- others joined in too. In fact, I > miss the days when those kind of "NNN" discussions happened. Thanks to > David, they are now labelled as such so others so inclined can ignore. > > We have all grown, in my view, way too serious about everything these > days, and need to step back and just enjoy engagement with friends and > colleagues who of course have differing points of view. That said, I agree > with David (who I send my great appreciation for his continued maintenance > of the Mifnet), the title of this discussion on Buttigieg/DEI and the > journalism qualities of the New York Post has run its course. Rgds, Roz > > On Friday, July 25, 2025 at 10:40:13 AM EDT, Bob Kneisley via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > > Wait a minute David, as there are a few things that still need to be said > on this topic. > > *Randy - *as a long-time Mifnet member, I can say without hesitation that > your recognition of the left-wing bias of this group is absolutely on > target. Unfortunately this condition has IMO too often led to groupthink > and suppression of non-conforming views. More seriously, it has also > inhibited participation and discussion on the Mifnet and may well > contribute to its demise, tho I personally hope that's not the case. But > it is what it is, and I don't expect it to change because it appears to > reflect the imbedded political views of most of the individual members. > > *David*, nothing in your post(s) caused the Mifnet's political bias, > which has instead been alive and flourishing for years, so you can stop > apologizing. Everyone appreciates your diligent efforts to steer the ship > in a constructive direction, even when difficult or impossible. > > And *Doug*, I appreciate your latest post, and particularly its > constructive tone. I will just say that nothing I said in this thread is > related to Southwest Airlines, instead it reflects my personal reaction to > several members' dismissive and even inflammatory reactions to the use of > the conservative (and therefore reviled) *New York Post* as a source of > criticism of Sec. Buttigieg. I found it rather astonishing that several > posters on a professional forum would think the article should be rejected > simply because it came from the *Post* (wink, wink) as opposed to > providing evidence of any factual inaccuracies. > > Bob K > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2025 at 4:04 PM David Wardell via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > Hi Randy, > > > > It’s certainly not meant to be that way, and I apologize for the > distraction. As with any discussion list, we occasionally become focused on > topics that have limited appeal. I should know better by now. > > > > All, > > > > May I kindly suggest that this topic has run through whatever mileage it > had and that we should move on? > > > > Many thanks to all, > > > > DW > > > > > > *David Wardell* > > (757) 561-0582 > > da...@wardell.org > > <https://wardell.us/url/b5s86> > > <https://wardell.us/url/s9qvz> > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* randy essell via Mifnet <mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2025 3:53 PM > *To:* mifnet@lists.mifnet.com > *Cc:* Church Doug <dchurc...@gmail.com>; Kneisley Bob < > bobkneisley...@gmail.com>; mifnet@lists.mifnet.com; randy essell < > randy.ess...@hotmail.com> > *Subject:* [Mifnet 🛰 73313] Re: Exclusive | Pete Buttigieg's DOT spent > $80 billion on DEI grants, delayed air traffic control upgrades: records, > industry insiders - New York Post 20250722 > > > > Just an observation. As a pretty new member of this group, I don’t like > to lead with my chin. But it seems way too much time is spent on > politics. The commentary leads me to believe the Mifnet is the aviation > arm of the DNC. Just sayin’. RJE > > > > > > On Jul 24, 2025, at 11:07 AM, Bob Kneisley via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > > > Ah, now the real truth comes out. Anything from the *New York Post* must > be ignored not because it's factually incorrect (for which there was no > showing) but simply because it supposedly reflects the wrong *political * > views*.* Who needs facts or even the First Amendment? We can just rely > on Democrat Doug to specify what sources are acceptable for the Mifnet to > use! > > > > Bob K > > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 7:37 PM Doug Church via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > I won’t withdraw this comment: the NY Post story is indeed HOGWASH. This > is not a legitimate news source. It’s a right wing political propaganda > entertainment source that loves to beat up on Democrats and is trying to > get noticed and get clicks to survive, like everyone in that crowded space. > This is not new. This is not controversial. > > > > Once you get past the ridiculous headline and lead paragraphs, there is > some semblance of balance and fairness to the piece, complete with comment > from former Secretary Buttigieg’s spokesperson. So at least there’s that. > > > > -Doug Church > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 5:03 PM F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > Bob K, > > > > I withdraw my comment with apologies. I don’t want to invest the time, > and lack the patience, to try to rebut the claims. Others have commented > on the veracity (or not) of the claims, and the source. Notwithstanding > its aviation connection (I guess), I do wonder why Dr Wardell chose to > start a political string on the Mifnet, and with an article from the New > York Post to boot (a newspaper I used to read on trips home on Metro North > for the amusement and the puzzles). Now he’s trying to use an AI search > function as an arbiter, which I don’t think I am prepared to accept - like > Wikipedia, it may be "directionally correct” as a colleague used to say, > but who knows? > > > > I’ll try hard to keep my knee-jerk reactions to myself in future. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 23, 2025, at 9:52 AM, Bob Kneisley via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > > > I'm curious Scott, how do you know "This is hogwash"? Do you have a > counter-source to the New York Post article? Personally I don't know for > sure if Buttigieg "shelled out tens of billions on a DEI agenda", tho it > sounds at least plausible given his well-known political leanings. In any > case, some evidence supporting your "hogwash" claim would be a lot more > informative to the readers than a drive-by smear. > > > > Bob K > > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> > > > > On Tue, Jul 22, 2025 at 3:52 PM F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > Dr Wardell > > > > This is hogwash. > > > > Scott > > > > > > > > On Jul 22, 2025, at 3:24 PM, David Wardell via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > > > Sharing this lengthy New York Post piece <https://wardell.us/url/k5dgz> > without comment, other than that it’s worth reading. > > > > *A short sample*: > > > > “WASHINGTON — Former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg failed to > replace outdated air traffic control systems while in office — with his > agency instead shelling out tens of billions of dollars on a DEI agenda, > according to federal spending records and airline industry insiders. > > > > “In one meeting, Buttigieg — who is said to be eyeing a 2028 presidential > run — told industry executives that air traffic control upgrades would just > allow them to fly more planes, “and so why would that be in his interest?” > sources said.” > > > > There are contrary views shared in the article, which *may be viewed here* > <https://wardell.us/url/k5dgz>. > > > > > > > > *David Wardell* > > (757) 561-0582 > > da...@wardell.org > > <image001.png> <https://wardell.us/url/b5s86> > > <image002.png> <https://wardell.us/url/s9qvz> > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. 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If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > privilege--not a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. 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-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/
