Karl, "They considered flying the A321neo to Hawaii and did one proving run but again decided that with adequate fuel reserves it was too close to the edge.
The A321neo aircraft that United is purchasing have PW1100G engines but next year they will start taking leased examples with LEAP-1A engines and—critically—an ACT (auxiliary center tank, or maybe it’s cargo). This sub-fleet will likely go to Hawaii." AA has quite a mix of Airbus 320 series a/c from America West(ancient, loud, temperamental), USAirways(almost as old, loud, temperamental), AA with sharklets and AA NEOs. I think it was after the merger that AA started using its 321s with sharklets from PHX and LAX to Hawaii. From what I remember about the various issues with those routes, the biggest problem was the takeoff performance out of one of the shorter runways for the return leg. It wasn't fuel though. My guess is that the proving runs United performed with its 321s were done with older versions of the 321 that did not have sharklets. Those will have worse performance than the newer ones so they'll fly lower and use more fuel enroute. I thought that all the 321s Airbus produced had aft center tanks of one configuration or another and the NEO and XLR just had more of it. When AA took delivery of its first 321 NEOs I noticed that the Max Weight was very close to the pre-NEO 321s, even though it carried more passengers. What a surprise. Then someone told me the LEAP engines weighed 3000 lbs less than the previous ones. Wow. They are so quiet I had to check my throttle position several times to make sure I had them set properly when I first flew them. If Airbus ever puts a longer wing on the 321 NEO it would have some serious ETOPS chops. Eric > On 10/28/2025 12:32 AM EDT Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Simon, > > > > On Oct 27, 2025, at 7:11 AM, srbrown via Mifnet <[email protected] > > mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > A fully loaded A320 would have little trouble either, as Eric has alluded > > to. We flew to the Canary Islands from Leeds-Bradford which was only about > > 500ft longer. I think an A321 might be ok too but I'd have to check my > > books on that. > > > > There’s a huge difference, however, which is that LBA to the Canary Islands > doesn’t require ETOPS, whereas BUR-Hawaii requires not just ETOPS but > 180-minute ETOPS. United looked at flying the A320 (CEO version) to Hawaii > from California and decided that it was too sketchy. I think the worst case > was loss of pressurization (but both engines still running) at the point of > equal time. Fuel burn at low altitude with both engines running for well over > three hours was horrible. > > They considered flying the A321neo to Hawaii and did one proving run but > again decided that with adequate fuel reserves it was too close to the edge. > > The A321neo aircraft that United is purchasing have PW1100G engines but next > year they will start taking leased examples with LEAP-1A engines > and—critically—an ACT (auxiliary center tank, or maybe it’s cargo). This > sub-fleet will likely go to Hawaii. > > > > > You almost certainly wouldn't fly back into BUR if you lost an engine after > > take off but that's a separate issue, coincidentally linked to the thread > > regarding the YouTube output of Captain “Steeeeeve”. I'm no longer a huge > > fan of pilot "Steeeve". Like Doug, I used to think he put in a fairly > > balanced and measured take on things but I went off his output several > > months ago ... > > > > Same here. > > > > To explain further, he made a big deal out of how the pilots with that > > particular engine failure would suddenly have to do some serious decision > > making about returning to BUR or finding somewhere longer but I think this > > is nonsense. In most flight decks those decisions would (should) have > > already been made and discussed in considerable detail in the pre-departure > > brief. > > > > I didn’t see that video but your assessment sounds spot on. He’s a 777 > captain so I’d expect him to know that. Sheesh. > > -- Karl > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. 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