LEAP is way heavier than CFM56 [cid:[email protected]] Regards, Addison Schonland www.airinsight.aero<http://www.airinsight.aero/> (858) 536-9900 (858) 682-4931 – WhatsApp
From: ERIC Smith via Mifnet <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 9:23 AM To: [email protected] Cc: ERIC Smith <[email protected]> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 74596] Re: Aloha, Burbank! Alaska Airlines launches first direct Hawaiʻi flight in 20+ years Karl, "They considered flying the A321neo to Hawaii and did one proving run but again decided that with adequate fuel reserves it was too close to the edge. The A321neo aircraft that United is purchasing have PW1100G engines but next year they will start taking leased examples with LEAP-1A engines and—critically—an ACT (auxiliary center tank, or maybe it’s cargo). This sub-fleet will likely go to Hawaii." AA has quite a mix of Airbus 320 series a/c from America West(ancient, loud, temperamental), USAirways(almost as old, loud, temperamental), AA with sharklets and AA NEOs. I think it was after the merger that AA started using its 321s with sharklets from PHX and LAX to Hawaii. From what I remember about the various issues with those routes, the biggest problem was the takeoff performance out of one of the shorter runways for the return leg. It wasn't fuel though. My guess is that the proving runs United performed with its 321s were done with older versions of the 321 that did not have sharklets. Those will have worse performance than the newer ones so they'll fly lower and use more fuel enroute. I thought that all the 321s Airbus produced had aft center tanks of one configuration or another and the NEO and XLR just had more of it. When AA took delivery of its first 321 NEOs I noticed that the Max Weight was very close to the pre-NEO 321s, even though it carried more passengers. What a surprise. Then someone told me the LEAP engines weighed 3000 lbs less than the previous ones. Wow. They are so quiet I had to check my throttle position several times to make sure I had them set properly when I first flew them. If Airbus ever puts a longer wing on the 321 NEO it would have some serious ETOPS chops. Eric On 10/28/2025 12:32 AM EDT Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Simon, On Oct 27, 2025, at 7:11 AM, srbrown via Mifnet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: A fully loaded A320 would have little trouble either, as Eric has alluded to. We flew to the Canary Islands from Leeds-Bradford which was only about 500ft longer. I think an A321 might be ok too but I'd have to check my books on that. There’s a huge difference, however, which is that LBA to the Canary Islands doesn’t require ETOPS, whereas BUR-Hawaii requires not just ETOPS but 180-minute ETOPS. United looked at flying the A320 (CEO version) to Hawaii from California and decided that it was too sketchy. I think the worst case was loss of pressurization (but both engines still running) at the point of equal time. Fuel burn at low altitude with both engines running for well over three hours was horrible. They considered flying the A321neo to Hawaii and did one proving run but again decided that with adequate fuel reserves it was too close to the edge. The A321neo aircraft that United is purchasing have PW1100G engines but next year they will start taking leased examples with LEAP-1A engines and—critically—an ACT (auxiliary center tank, or maybe it’s cargo). This sub-fleet will likely go to Hawaii. You almost certainly wouldn't fly back into BUR if you lost an engine after take off but that's a separate issue, coincidentally linked to the thread regarding the YouTube output of Captain “Steeeeeve”. I'm no longer a huge fan of pilot "Steeeve". Like Doug, I used to think he put in a fairly balanced and measured take on things but I went off his output several months ago ... Same here. To explain further, he made a big deal out of how the pilots with that particular engine failure would suddenly have to do some serious decision making about returning to BUR or finding somewhere longer but I think this is nonsense. In most flight decks those decisions would (should) have already been made and discussed in considerable detail in the pre-departure brief. I didn’t see that video but your assessment sounds spot on. He’s a 777 captain so I’d expect him to know that. Sheesh. -- Karl -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. 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-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
