Josh Luthman wrote:
Here is the struggle I face with this type of argument. If 20% of your
customers are using 90% of your bandwidth, aren't you really overcharging
the other 80% if you are going to gripe about the 20%?
I think you mean undercharging the 80%? Maybe, but my smallest advertised
price is 45/mo. This has done a great job of keeping those bottom dollar
customers away (those great Friday night calls saying my Internet is slow I
can't get my Netflix shows in high def in less then a second so I want a
refund kind of thing).
No I mean overcharging. Lets say you have your operation fine tuned to
the point that you are making a reasonable profit after all expenses are
paid. Now you look at your traffic and say "Hey 80% of the bandwidth is
being used by 20% of the people" If I drop that 20% I can reduce my
bandwidth cost by 80%. If you do this, are you now overcharging your
customers?
We can justify overselling our bandwidth by saying it all works out in
the end, some people use more than "their fair share" and other use less
so it all comes out in the wash, Now if we start clamping down on the
"more" side of the equation wouldn't that imply that we are 'raising the
rate' on the less side of the equation since we have rigged the equation.
As for Netflix, do you tell your customers when they sign up that they
are not allowed to use Netflix or Hulu or any other streaming service?
I keep seeing PPS being a limiting factor - what equipment is everyone using
hitting this barrier?
As far as word of mouth, I agree that you don't simply want to axe them and
be done with it. This is why I suggest talking and communicating. My
dial-up provider called me complaining I was on nearly 24/7 on my unlimited
service so they simply asked me to not be connected when I wasn't using it.
I simply checked dial on demand and made both of us happy.
First it gives you a leg to stand on when the customer complains to you or
the authorities, if we ever get saddled with net neutrality rules with
teeth.
I believe we're all private companies. Right to refuse service to anyone
for any reason. At this point there is no law against blocking certain
traffic, is there?
Currently there is no law, but there has been plenty of grumblings
stemming from companies that offer a voice service blocking VOIP
traffic. The Net Neutrality crowd would like love to make bandwidth
shaping illegal and just because it would be bad for business does not
mean that lawmakers won't pass it.
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
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On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Sam Tetherow <[email protected]> wrote:
Here is the struggle I face with this type of argument. If 20% of your
customers are using 90% of your bandwidth, aren't you really overcharging
the other 80% if you are going to gripe about the 20%?
Another thing to consider, at least for me, is that almost all of my
successful advertising is word of mouth. Now, how much of that good word of
mouth advertising comes from the 20% I would have just axed vs the 80% that
are apparently overpaying for their bandwidth?
As far as the 'ban hammer' I don't think banning torrent traffic is the way
to go (or any application for that matter). If torrent traffic is causing
problems on your network it is not because it is a torrent, it is because it
presents certain type of traffic characteristics, such as high packet rate,
excessive bandwidth usage, excessive upstream usage.
What needs to be addressed is the characteristic that is causing the
problem. First it gives you a leg to stand on when the customer complains
to you or the authorities, if we ever get saddled with net neutrality rules
with teeth. And secondly it fixes the actual problem as oppose to just
removing a symptom. All that has to happen is encrypting the torrent
traffic and you won't be able to track it and the problem is back; or
another application comes along which exhibits the same characteristics.
Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless
Josh Luthman wrote:
The way I see it is if 20% of your customers use 90% of your cost,
removing 20% of your revenue is worth dropping costs to 10%.
On 2/14/10, Butch Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 23:30 -0500, Josh Luthman wrote:
It doesn't make sense to simply disallow it - offer a bandwidth plan
that makes you both happy. If you can't resolve it then he has
another ISP. Let them deal with the problem.
If he pays for 1 meg and does it all the time we both know that's the
kind of customer that kills your profit and therefor your business.
You and I are WISPs to make money and serve the area - this can't be
done when someone is paying 25/mo and ruining it for everyone.
There are ways to accomplish the "best of both worlds" here. My new QOS
approach allows you to permit the traffic, even if you limit it's impact
by setting a speed limit, and still allow good speeds for other users.
One thing that you cannot fix with QOS is the reality that torrents are
very high packet rates (usually) and (also usually) not very high
bandwidth per connection. My approach, still, is to allow it, but set
limits on it's impact on the network. Give it a small amount of
bandwidth that is shared by other users with the same type of network
utilization and let them have at it. All in all, though, I agree with
Josh. The 5-10% of abusers (most cases, it's not even that many) are
not worth what they pay. However, it will get to a point where that
number goes to 20-30% when certain services (like the streaming video)
become more popular. When that happens, it's not a good business
decision to simply drop the traffic and lose 20% of your business.
Thinking of these things makes me happy I'm no longer an ISP. I really
do think that you'll find that the QOS system I've developed will be
very helpful, though.
--
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* Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering *
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