The BBC has even prevented an appeal for Gaza on television here. Even this is complicated because aid is one of the ways the Palestinians are manipulated, but I suspect we just don't really want to show what Israel has done.
On 23 Jan, 16:34, "willy minnen" <[email protected]> wrote: > From 1968 till 1974 I worked in a bank! A small hypothecary society that > became a big bank at once. Together with a friend I wrote a novel about > everything going wrong inside. We just changed names. We sold it in front of > the bank in the center of Antwerp, the biggest shopping-street we have. It > became a local best-seller. The bank even did not fire us for it. I had to > quit it myself and became a chief-accountant in a transportfirm. You always > loved the harbour, you know. > What I learned in the bank about (Marxist or not, even Keynesian) economy is > that money never could be a product. It is just a handy tool for trade. The > mess banks create in the finance of families is their stupid idea that money > is a product. > The most serious, about the Middle East, everything goes as the Israelian > government wants it, call them hawks or just cool murderers, that changes > nothing at the genicide since 1946. > Me too, I fear the only change that can occur in the Palestinian camp will > be a radicalisation. Because, no Palestine leader is able to change the > situation and the israelian government is not willing to change it, the > solution has to come from outside. > Maybe Obama is the only one who has enough influence on both to bring them > together at a table. If not both camps are tending to extremism, not only > the Palestine camp. > lOve and peace. Willy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: archytas > To: "Minds Eye" > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:43 PM > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza > > It seems worth posting this from the same article. > > Middle East observers wonder whether Israel’s assault on Hamas will > succeed in destroying the organisation or expelling it from Gaza. This > is an irrelevant question. If Israel plans to keep control over any > future Palestinian entity, it will never find a Palestinian partner, > and even if it succeeds in dismantling Hamas, the movement will in > time be replaced by a far more radical Palestinian opposition. > If Barack Obama picks a seasoned Middle East envoy who clings to the > idea that outsiders should not present their own proposals for a just > and sustainable peace agreement, much less press the parties to accept > it, but instead leave them to work out their differences, he will > assure a future Palestinian resistance far more extreme than Hamas – > one likely to be allied with al-Qaida. For the US, Europe and most of > the rest of the world, this would be the worst possible outcome. > Perhaps some Israelis, including the settler leadership, believe it > would serve their purposes, since it would provide the government with > a compelling pretext to hold on to all of Palestine. But this is a > delusion that would bring about the end of Israel as a Jewish and > democratic state. > > On identity Willy, I tend to find the ones on offer not worth a light, > but know I have been missing fellowship - in the past I did this > through idiot sport, but professionalisation-businessifcation have > destroyed this possibility. I had to be too fit to be a hippy, but > was not above the odd half-time toke to ease the pain of seeking > winning match fees. Perhaps we should form the Allied Hippy Bank - > we'll lose money like the rest but supply genuine solace to our > customers! > > On 23 Jan, 12:24, "willy minnen" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Change is the first thing we were crying for since the movements of the > > sixties. And so few things changed during my life. I hope Obama can put > some > > pressure on the Israeli government. But the most important change will > be in > > the hearts of the people. I have a lot of Scottish friends. We > understand > > each other because they knew the same oppression as the Flemish in > Belgium. > > As my father was Greek, I know the same doubts about my own identity. > > Love and peace. Willy. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: archytas > > To: "Minds Eye" > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:27 AM > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza > > > My daughter is in Israel and complains our media is biased against the > > truth. Yet what the Israelis have done (yet again) in Gaza seems > > unforgivable. It's obviously very easy to take sides in this dispute, > > yet clearly what is needed is an all sides position and arbitration. > > Fair arbitration is, of course, almost utterly compromised across our > > societies. Part of my family was hounded from Scotland in the 1800s > > and subject to sufficient persecution for there to have been several > > name changes. Another part of the family were Jewish - more name > > changes. I still see Eastern Europeans still traumatised by WW2 > > events. My guess is we need bigger changes to solve the misery around > > the world. > > > On 23 Jan, 07:15, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I get your point and come to think of it my sister in-law's father is > > > a holocaust survivor and his outlook on life is quite different from > > > the many Jewish people I've ever known. Understandably, something was > > > seriously ingrained within his psyche that has never been resolved and > > > remains repressed. Similarly there are those in the black community > > > who remain detached and again this is understandable after all the > > > years of suffering. As long as I personally project good intentions > > > to everyone I come in contact with, there is nothing to fear and the > > > projections actually put others in a less apprehensive state of mind. > > > Once fear is gone, good times follow. I can only imagine what it would > > > be like to live in fear of persecution due to my ethnicity. I only > > > hope that someday humanity can overcome, and we can all live in > > > peaceful bliss. > > > > On Jan 22, 6:24 pm, "willy minnen" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > That's what I try to tell you all, Slip. Our experiences with them > are > > > > different in several parts of the world. Here in Antwerp, the > diamond > > > > center, they are different from other countries. Most of the > decedents > > of > > > > the people that lived here before WWII settled somewhere else. The > > ones who > > > > are here now come mostly from Israel, East-Europe and even the USA. > > They > > > > refuse to have any contact with us and stay just a certain time. > > > > An example of the difference with other foreigners. The house of a > > family > > > > that lived in the suburb where I was born staid empty for several > > years. The > > > > members who survived the war settled in Israel. That's their right. > > But now > > > > it comes. The house was claimed by other Jews and they got it. > > > > Can you imagine a Maroccan claiming the house left behind by another > > > > Maroccan in the name of Allah and getting it? That's what upsets me > > here. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Slip Disc > > > > To: "Minds Eye" > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:28 AM > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Gaza > > > > > Vats the matzah with "You People"!! > > > > > Don't forget the Prune Jews Fran, they are the toughest bunch and > will > > > > knock the crap out of you! lol > > > > > I grew up around and with many Jewish people in and around NY, never > > > > had a problem, never had any experiences of violence. > > > > I don't think Jews in the US suffer from the fears that Israeli Jews > > > > do. > > > > > All I can remember is the hospitality and the great food, mmm > Gefilte > > > > Fish, a warm Bialy, Bagels and Lox. This summer I will dine to my > > > > hearts content at my favorite Jewish Deli. > > > > > I wish I had a real Jewish Knishe right now! Really! > > > > > I think one of the biggest problems in the world is "overly serious > > > > people". > > > > > Why can't we all just dance together in harmonious balance? > > > > > Shalom! > > > > > On Jan 22, 1:06 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 22 Jan., 19:29, "willy minnen" > > <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote:> Thanks, gruff, even here it is dangerous to talk about > them > > the > > > > same way as > > > > > > about others. > > > > > > "them" ... This is a basic part of the problem and one of the > roots > > of > > > > > anti-semitism, even if we are mostly unconscious of it. There is > no > > > > > "them". There are orthodox Jews, secular Jews, atheistic Jews, > Jews > > > > > who support everything Israel does, Jews who don't. There is the > > state > > > > > of Israel, which is a jewish state, whose doings and > being-done-tos > > > > > are significant to those who live there and Jews all over the > > > > > world ... but which is, nevertheless, a particular problem. > > > > > > I am a non-German, living in Germany. Even here, where the horror > of > > > > > the holocaust is consciously, chosenly, rightly present, as a > > > > > responsibility to the past, present and future (incidentally, > making > > > > > the relationship between Germans and Jews endlessly uncomfortable > > and > > > > > the theme of Israel and its actions continually complex), I still > > > > > experience this "them" oozing out of the unconscious Christian/ > > > > > European rooted tradition. "They" are different. And the different > > is > > > > > strange, somehow untrustworthy. > > > > > > We have to move beyond "them". > > > > > > Francis --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
