There are a lot of "have not" animal societies Chris - in which the have nots can be fed and trained to rise up - only to kill the existing top mouse and become king themselves. We seem to have a great fear (probably a reasonable one on history) that if we don't stay on top we will be usurped. Foreign policies all over have long been about weakening potential enemies and keeping our technologies ahead. There is an easily detectable tone in arguments that atrocities are necessary and that if we only knew how bad the Arabs (etc) were and were not so naive we'd accept the actions were moral. Maybe the argument extends to the notion we'd all be lazy, idle bastards if we were secure in basics and need the competition of war, feeding ourselves and so on to be kept straight. I'm a bit of a believer in "white society" - not on the basis of skin colour, but because we have partly emancipated. This doesn't make me feel superior much, and I can't stand supremacy notions. The hill of such moral high ground is low, admittedly, yet we suffer because we won't evaluate what is right and potentially better in democratic civilisation as opposed to more feudal arrangements, as well as failing to grasp some bitter realities about ourselves. Our societies seem to corrupt towards some pretty horrible leadership situations by default. The genocide in Rwanda was described to a friend of mine as the "killing of those whose children went to school in shoes by those whose children had no shoes". It was essentially about food.
Some arse in Dubai recently waxed lyrical on how she had been able to create a great life through hard work and so on. She had no idea of how Dubai was really built. Something similar runs through debates on Israel - easy appeals on all sides to pretty dumb, selfish ideologies. Ahmad"dinnerjacket" in Iran is right when he talks of western fingers in pies, but is local appeal is similar to that of Bush or Blair, rather than through fair analysis. I suspect these matters are more genetic, ignorant and so on than we accept. On 8 Feb, 23:07, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > Is that it, then, Neil? The real separation between the haves and have nots? > It all comes down to fear of what the nots will do if they become haves? > > > > [ Attached Message ]From:archytas <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds Eye\"" > <[email protected]>Date:Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:16:05 -0800 > (PST)Local:Sun 8 Feb 2009 22:16Subject:[Mind's Eye] Re: GAZA, straggling > > Real empowerment seems a non-starter because we are so scared about > what empowered people will do. > > On 30 Jan, 18:09, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello Slip Disc, and all others, > > I'm returning to this topic a bit late... it looks as though everyone > > has had their fill of it, at least for a while. I've been > > preoccupied > > with some minor but concerning personal things, that I won't get > > into.... Anyway, I remember the Military-Industrial Complex > > Observation made by Eisenhower.... a few years before my time, I was > > still a pre-teen when he said it, but I remember the effect that the > > whole arguement had especially during the Vietnam War era. I don't > > discount it... the association between the Military and Capitalist > > Greed.... War is "profitable"... there are even some nowadays who are > > saying (again) that the way "we" got out of the Great Depression was > > throught WWII..... Sort of a sobering ad cautionary notion... when > > you > > wonder about those who are bringing this whole arguement up again... > > what war are they trying to start? Is this their suggestion for > > getting out of our present economic downturn, get comes to my mind? > > But what I am trying to get at is that the Gaza situation... Israel > > vs. Muslim Countries... seems to me to go further than the > > workings of the Military Industruial Complex notion ... war as > > economic source of > > personal gain.... can account for. I think that there would be > > conflict in the Middle East even if both sides were relegated to > > going > > at each other with Sticks and Rocks (look at the Palestinians for > > proof of that).... One poster above (I forget who) said that the > > conflict between the Jews and the Muslims seemed to be "genetic".... > > I > > don't think that the notion holds "biologically" but I agree with the > > sentiment.... the animosity is very deeply ingrained.... socially or > > culturally, religiously and in all sorts of deeply felt ways. All of > > this , in a round-about way gets me to the point I want to make. > > This whole thing is very "personalized" , as many human "people" > > problems tend to become. And the harm and "effects" of the situation, > > be it as military conflict or even at the level of the "domination" > > imposed on some by others.... okay and the "terror" that the other > > side claims to be subjected to, as well.... all of that is > > "personal". > > There are people dying and being oppressed, throughout it all. I > > suppose what I am trying to get at is that this matter should not be > > looked at as being "resolvable" at the general level but that it > > should be tried to be solved at the personal one..... one problem for > > one person at a time level. I know, it sounds a little .... > > Kumbaya.... but that isn't how I mean it. I mean, solve the Poverty > > in > > Gaza and elsewhere, first and foremost.... feed, cure, employ, give > > full legal and human rights to the "little people", and TO HELL with > > the leaders or the politicians, be they Palestinian or Israeli.... > > And > > as for the "Military- Industrial Complex"..... well, Eisenhower did > > have a point.... stop all U.S. military aid to the Israelis..... they > > can always buy their own guns..... everybody knows that they already > > have plenty... up to and including Nuclear Weapons. > > nominal9 > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
