I think Pinker has a good point. Our mores have changed for the better, even though we have been less than successful in fulfilling our ideals. The UN, for example, is an imperfect organization, but it is still the most successful international organization that we have ever established, and does much unrecognized good work through the World Health Organization and UNESCO. Just a century ago, such an organization would have been unthinkable. Similarly, for the first time in human history, there is general recognition that slavery is evil--even though we have not yet been successful in getting rid of it. If you read older texts, though, people took it for granted, as late as the 19th century. Moreover, our technology, despite the fact that it has been misused for many things, has enabled us to accomplish things that would have been inconceivable not long ago, such as the eradication of smallpox. Being human, we have a long way yet to go-- but would anyone want to be a slave in ancient Rome?
On Feb 22, 12:57 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Pinker has made this point in many books and articles. The body count > work looks credible. The rule of law works to some extent. I see > kids round here in gangs - not really nasty ones - and then I see > adult behaviour that is much worse, yet still amongst people who went > to school together and have never really moved beyond the end of the > street and seem trapped in childhood and pretty grim realities. There > are really low murder rates in some parts of the Middle East (loads of > cops and not much reason to want to have a day in court). Nobility > doesn't seem to fit, though I do believe the kill rate drops with > policing and legal systems. Pinker's other point on this is that poor > males between 18 and 30 tend to be the killers whatever the society. > I think he has the facts right, but the wrong interpretation. My > guess is that he dislikes the "noble savage" concept as much as that > of "clean state" mind. We'd surely need honesty to be noble. > > On 21 Feb, 15:20, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > a cynic, but an interesting one... > > > On Feb 21, 5:17 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Does anyone else have problems taking seriously a grown man in such > > > dire need of a haircut? It's distracting. Anyway, I think he's on to > > > something here. The biggest reason violence is down is the rapid > > > dissemination of information and the difficulty in disguising gross > > > injustice. Governments want the rest of the world to think highly of > > > them and aggressively promote themselves with favorable PR. This > > > reduces the likelihood of blatant, uncalled for aggression. I don't > > > think we are at all nobler but I do think we all like to at least > > > appear to be so. > > > > It ties in nicely with my theory of why religion was invented. An > > > Omnipotent being judging your every move is motivation to behave. I > > > don't believe in Santa Claus any more but I do believe in the power of > > > the Press. And the internet. I wonder how long before our leaders > > > find a way to suppress it or bend it to their will? Oh wait, we're > > > already there. Google in China. Most major American newspapers > > > except the WSJ are in the tank for President Obama. All cheerleaders > > > for waste. We are squandering our global advantage. I understand why > > > international news agencies like the AP and Reuters would be in favor > > > of a socialist president but the fawning of our own papers is a little > > > disconcerting. > > > > Am I a cynic or a realist? Or sadly misinformed? > > > > dj > > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I do have this tendency to throw public notables out on a bed of nails > > > > to see which of you are inclined to take some steps across them. > > > > Ouch! However, this is not just about curiosity but evaluation of my > > > > views for either reinforcement or modification. > > > > Steven Pinker, the Johnstone Family Professor in the Department of > > > > Psychology at Harvard University has a lecture video in which he > > > > asserts humans to be peaceful by nature and merely corrupted by modern > > > > institutions and concluding that we are living very peaceful lives by > > > > historical comparisons. > > > > Pinker writes, "Now that social scientists have started to count > > > > bodies in different historical periods, they have discovered that the > > > > romantic theory gets it backward: Far from causing us to become more > > > > violent, something in modernity and its cultural institutions has made > > > > us nobler." > > > > This approach is a combination of empirical and biological study in > > > > contrast to former assertions formed upon human cultures and > > > > socialization without regard to biological recognition. > > > > Steven Pinker concludes that violence in the world has actually > > > > decreased, and conveys this idea in his "A History of Violence" > > > > lecturehttp://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/163 > > > > I for one never conceived of the notion but have tossed some bones > > > > around with my good friend gruff, who also asserts that mankind has > > > > made significant strides in the quest for a more peaceful existence in > > > > contrast to my view that man is as violent now as ever and desires > > > > aggressive conflict in perpetuity. > > > > I think Pinker's inclusion of such behaviors as cat burning in 16th > > > > century Paris is a stretch to expand the degree of historical > > > > violence, as is reference to human sacrifice, slavery, governmental > > > > conquests, real estate acquisition via genocide, torture and > > > > mutilation as routine punishment, the death penalty, assassination, > > > > massacres, conflict resolve through killing, all of which still take > > > > place in our time. Pinker also references Biblical examples of > > > > genocide and stoning deaths for any number of infractions, also > > > > attributing the same and similar torturous behaviors to historical > > > > accounts of Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and Chinese, etc. > > > > Pointing to a "change is sensibility" Pinker writes: "Violence has > > > > been in decline over long stretches of history, and today we are > > > > probably living in the most peaceful moment of our species' time on > > > > earth." > > > > > Somehow I can't seem to dance to the tune. > > > > > Please take the time to view this lecture, only 19 minutes and respond > > > > as to........... > > > > > Truth or Wishful Thinking? > > > > > State your Stance! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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