Fiend? *howls really loud*
On Feb 22, 2:57 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Very insightful, as usual, my fiend Slip.
>
> On Feb 22, 3:49 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Gee Molly, you must have much To Do to typo a To To for a Do To. Busy
> > are we?
>
> > Miss your more in depth out looks. {:-)
>
> > On Feb 22, 12:08 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > And by the way, moderators, many, many thanks for all that you to to
> > > allow these conversations. You are appreciated.
>
> > > On Feb 22, 11:01 am, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Betty,
> > > > You probably joined the group and choose to receive updates via
> > > > email. Change your settings to no email if you do not wish to receive
> > > > email updates.
>
> > > > On Feb 22, 1:18 am, Betty Boop <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > ok im a bit lost as to why i am recieving everyones mail but none is
> > > > > directed at me????/ could you answer that for me
> > > > > From: Vamadevananda <[email protected]>
> > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: Say it ain't so....
> > > > > To: ""Minds Eye"" <[email protected]>
> > > > > Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 8:16 AM
>
> > > > > Could we keep Goffman, Ludwig, Lyotard, etc. aside for a moment,
> > > > > Neil ! It is very easy to lose focus between the two virtues of
> > > > > listening and expressing, the kind you espouse.
>
> > > > > The point is you like Chaz and would like to have him back. Keeping
> > > > > KC's offering in mind, the question was of maintaining order on this
> > > > > forum. Which that involves isn't restrictive at all : it just
> > > > > requires that one is verbally meaningful, polite and respectful
> > > > > towards each other. Do you disagree with that, this one basic need of
> > > > > ensuring order ?
>
> > > > > And, how does one ensure that order without shutting out the spammers
> > > > > and the deviants, the latter who continue to display obnoxious
> > > > > ( verbal ) behaviour despite having been given a long rope in terms of
> > > > > caution and warnings ?
>
> > > > > I see this happenning as being more procedureal than philosophical !
> > > > > Much as I envy your erudition, I also suspect that it can be
> > > > > debilitating.
>
> > > > > On 21 Feb, 20:22, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > The question, I guess Molly, would be how we might get the spirit
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > our due process. We fail almost entirely in the UK because we can't
> > > > > > work out what fair expression is and don't do proper investigations.
> > > > > > Goffman got a lot right in terms of what is said in different places
> > > > > > and contexts, and I remember a reference to a British bureaucrat in
> > > > > > 1941 pointing out the 'economical with the truth' strategy - the
> > > > > > best
> > > > > > answers one could ever draft being so meaningless as not to allow
> > > > > > critique or even understanding. Aggression is often conflated with
> > > > > > frustration and a kind of righteous indignation we should take more
> > > > > > account of. I guess the need to sort out spam and snerting etc.
> > > > > > must
> > > > > > run up against the ideal of wanting anyone to be able to have their
> > > > > > say. What kills me off in the general run of information in the
> > > > > > media
> > > > > > is that they never get beyond a class view or seem to understand
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > isn't balance, but prejudice. Even this runs to a defence of the
> > > > > > Sun
> > > > > > if not careful (our main grim tabloid). I often get a 'let them eat
> > > > > > cake' feeling.
>
> > > > > > There is a need to spit in the face of smiling brotherhoods - yet
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > spit is often merely to say this isn't working for me and is hurting
> > > > > > me. There is a key inertial violence in our systems - standard
> > > > > > academic work would refer to paranoid-schizoid and depressive
> > > > > > positions - but even to say this is to be confused with claiming
> > > > > > people are paranoid-schizoid as an insult. One is generally forced
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > be a supplicant to those with the power to exclude evidence.
> > > > > > Evidence
> > > > > > itself becomes an instrument of torture - perhaps as claims to
> > > > > > provide
> > > > > > evidence might be used against some of your prose-ideas (which are
> > > > > > often a source of comfort to me). I really don't want to be
> > > > > > distracted by bone pointers when trying to discuss methyl effects in
> > > > > > epigenetics - but there is an equal distraction from scientistic
> > > > > > boneheads amongst the phenomenological-experiential.
>
> > > > > > This used to be put in terms of competing paradigms, or analytic
> > > > > > versus immanent critique - my view was that we do this at some speed
> > > > > > in scientific hypothesising and trying to understand others - moving
> > > > > > as quickly as we could towards observational data in an
> > > > > > understanding
> > > > > > of its theory-ladenness and critical experimentation. None of this
> > > > > > was about trashing someone talking about treating traumatised kids
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > an idiot because her work couldn't generalise (which, of course, it
> > > > > > could if one looked hard at its conditions of possibility) because
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > was only her experience.
>
> > > > > > Gabby said something about repetition that seems tangentially
> > > > > > relevent. We all repeat. Indeed, her posts repeat some kind of
> > > > > > enigmatic message, always welcomed even when I'm confused. 'You
> > > > > > poor
> > > > > > little wain' she might reply - and there would only be an exchange
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > smiles. Your response on the return of logos certainly made me
> > > > > > smile. Polite postmoderism only demands a lack of seriousness along
> > > > > > with a refusal to dance on graves. I can't remember a bunch of
> > > > > > politicians so serious as we have now, ceding opposition merely to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > satirists and the dire smalltalk of the pub. Of course,
> > > > > > postmodernism
> > > > > > forgets it demands anything. In Lyotard's version it arises before
> > > > > > modernism - I guess as a critical (pretty scientific) moment in
> > > > > > hypothesis to move to a rationalism again subject to the moment of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > postmodern. We had heard this long before his report in 1979. One
> > > > > > might wonder how we can progress past the hostile barriers of the
> > > > > > old,
> > > > > > repeated arguments people want to ascribe importance to. This might
> > > > > > be the highly impolite Wittgesteinian deconstruction moment of
> > > > > > noticing the same old sets at work in all side of an argument.
> > > > > > Everyone hates this smartass, though the matter is key in the Ludwig
> > > > > > (not Witters) and Snell programmes that have identified
> > > > > > approximation
> > > > > > in all research programmes. Negotiation and argument have, sadly,
> > > > > > become forms of life that actually exclude what we would intend them
> > > > > > for. Conviction politics have become a grim form of not listenning
> > > > > > and endless justification by singing hymns louder. The repetion is
> > > > > > everywhere.
>
> > > > > > On 21 Feb, 13:45, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Just as politesse for the sake of politics is abhorrent,
> > > > > > > hatefulness
> > > > > > > in the name of free speech is even more so. Bullies who cry their
> > > > > > > right to aggression have it all backwards, but this is nothing
> > > > > > > new.
> > > > > > > Unfortunately, our court rooms are full of them, so the blind eye
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > justice remains so often closed. Now we are back to a set of
> > > > > > > morals
> > > > > > > and ethics that these folks just can't understand because if they
> > > > > > > did,
> > > > > > > they would need to let go of that all powerful feeling of
> > > > > > > domination
> > > > > > > or being right. I, for one, am glad for a space to express myself
> > > > > > > that includes folks that, in their wisdom, can get beyond all that
> > > > > > > nonsense.
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 21, 7:04 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I tend to agree Craig - even if the free speech bit sticks in
> > > > > > > > my craw
> > > > > > > > and I actually like Chaz. Knowing you tried is important, so
> > > > > > > > thanks
> > > > > > > > for telling us. I feel incidentally that there is conflation
> > > > > > > > in my
> > > > > > > > concerns between the dire silencing of what people feel in our
> > > > > > > > society
> > > > > > > > under political correctness and wanting the impossible from the
> > > > > > > > generally high standards in here. The conundrum in
> > > > > > > > postmodernism is
> > > > > > > > that voices are silenced despite the insistence we should be
> > > > > > > > listenning to them. There's been fair play and this is all we
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > ask. I suspect, had I been party to this, I would not have
> > > > > > > > wanted to
> > > > > > > > change the outcome on the evidence.
>
> > > > > > > > On 21 Feb, 00:22, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > You could have forced the last three sentences to remain in
> > > > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > fingers.
>
> > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb., 22:57, Kierkecraig <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Nom,
> > > > > > > > > > Of course your just as free to go, as we are free to
> > > > > > > > > > moderate. I just
> > > > > > > > > > want to make clear though, that we have never moderated
> > > > > > > > > > based on
> > > > > > > > > > content or substance. There are three moderator's on this
> > > > > > > > > > site, and
> > > > > > > > > > our views differ drastically. I don't think you can find
> > > > > > > > > > two people
> > > > > > > > > > who have views that differ as drastically as mine and
> > > > > > > > > > Ian's. You, and
> > > > > > > > > > everyone else are free to talk about anything you want on
> > > > > > > > > > this site.
> > > > > > > > > > You will only be banned if you attack other members of the
> > > > > > > > > > group,
> > > > > > > > > > using foul and vulgar language, and change the tone of an
> > > > > > > > > > open and
> > > > > > > > > > accepting environment. In other words, we are only
> > > > > > > > > > intolerant of the
> > > > > > > > > > intolerant. ;) (never thought I'd hear that phrase come
> > > > > > > > > > out of my
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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