We just queue Michael.
On 4 Mar, 16:04, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote:
> This may be a silly question that has already been answered by those
> who posit reincarnation, or you may have an answer, Slip.
>
> But it just occurred to me that the world population keeps growing,
> over time. So let's begin to flesh out the mechanics of reincarnation
> theory. Since the world population keeps growing, new souls must be
> coming into being (on the starting premise that souls exist, of
> course). What is your belief as to whether all souls reincarnate? Is
> it that, each year, of the 300 million people who die (I'm guessing
> here, not bothering to look up how many people actually die each
> year), those 300 million souls immediately reincarnate? Is there some
> lag time? Given that the world population grows by, say, 200 million
> a year, does this mean that 200 million entirely new, non-reincarnated
> souls are generated each year?
>
> More importantly, when a new baby is born, how is it decided whether
> that new baby gets a reincarnated soul, or an entirely new soul?
>
> The basic premise of my e-mail is that the number of people dying
> falls short of the number of people being born, so not every new birth
> can have a reincarnated soul. How does reincarnation theory think
> about this?
>
> On Mar 3, 10:51 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Slip, can you clarify what you mean by saying "Thought, as I see it, is
> > > not physical or tangible<<<<<MB
>
> > Simply for me thought is not something that you can put in a box and
> > ship out or place in a zip lock bag for storage. I feel thought and
> > imagination are homologous but not identical in that thought itself
> > may be considered more of a process, which imagination uses to create
> > ideas, concepts, theories etc.
>
> > though it is the subject of multiple scientific experiments." ?<<<MB
>
> > I may have hastened to use the expression scientific experiments, no
> > intended reference to "thought experiments", but more so leaning
> > towards the nature of thought, it's use as in telekinesis, telepathy,
> > clairvoyance, the overall power of thinking, and the law of
> > attraction, much of which admittedly, is speculative and/or
> > hypothetical.
> > Discovering the physical nature of thought is aside from what I am
> > projecting because once thought takes place it becomes independent of
> > it's originating source as does the light emanating from a dead star.
>
> > > As I understand you, you posed that perspective in opposition to the
> > > contention that "all thought
> > > and consciousness dies with the death of the physical mind." Are you
> > > arguing that when a person is alive, his thoughts are extra-physical,
> > > or are you also arguing that consciousness / soul survives death?<<<MB
>
> > I'm not arguing as much as I am suggesting that thoughts are not
> > confined to our physical being. As I posted early on, we do see light
> > from stars that are physically non existent. I believe thoughts,
> > imaginations and subconscious manifestations do continue to exist
> > beyond the physical demise. I feel very strongly that the soul
> > survives physical death and also retains life experiences. I believe
> > that some people have lived past lives but not all, as some people are
> > Old Souls, ie: child prodigies, brilliant scientists etc., while
> > others are New Souls ie: idiots without a clue who are easily
> > identifiable. I would not consider reincarnation in the sense that
> > our soul returns in the form of a different species but contend the
> > soul returns as another human being. A human soul does not return as
> > a cow in my opinion. I think we retain life experiences within our
> > soul and believe that life might be occurring simultaneously within a
> > parallel universe and further that there is a level at which time is
> > of no consequence.
> > Belief in certain aspects of death may give credence to what some know
> > as Heaven and the Immortality of the soul. For atheists, pantheists,
> > materialists and rationalists there would be no question and
> > conversation of such idea would be moot. So what meaning does death
> > have to us as we are living? Perhaps it is a reminder that life is
> > temporary and that we should pay heed to what lies ahead without
> > paying as much attention to amassing materialistic treasures over
> > spiritual values. Is death just a marker between lives? Possibly
> > and for me most likely, no one has ever come back to tell us anything
> > about it. Is there a Karma that carries from one life to the next? I
> > would think that if the soul retains it's accumulated properties then
> > it might also retain the aspects of retribution. Upon new life in the
> > new physical frame is there a clean slate with which to develop? I
> > often wonder why some people are born into extreme poverty and pain
> > while others live wonderful lives. While both will have to commit to
> > death the interim of life seems to have significance in the fact that
> > maybe there is for them a lesson to be learned. I would also have to
> > examine why it is that a person is born and dies within hours of
> > living if there is any significance to life between birth and death.
> > Some believe that what we do in this life influences our lives to
> > come, so I have to wonder what has that person done within it's few
> > hours of life to influence it's future life. Can we lay down a
> > prospective for person's future life based on general observation of
> > the person's current life. IF so then where might be Hitler, Dahmer,
> > Saddam and what are they doing in their future life? Have they
> > returned already and are they living among us as we speak? The
> > question begets more questions which beget even more as the question
> > surrounding the most mysterious aspects of human life remains
> > enigmatic; what of death?
>
> > > As for the Noggin article, it's an interested experiment, to be sure,
> > > but did you have a particular perspective on it? To me, it isn't
> > > particularly surprising that different parts of the brain light up
> > > based on your preferences. Presumably, imaging equipment will
> > > eventually be able to see which pictures send more dopamine through
> > > your brain and hence are the ones you like. Did you have a different
> > > perspective?
>
> > > On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > You are indeed the arbitrator, wood.
> > > > We had some discussion on thought not long ago. I started a thread
> > > > titled "Noggin News or Nonsense" in which I presented a study.
> > > > I'd be interested in your "thought" on it.
>
> > > >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,490606,00.html
>
> > > > On Mar 3, 12:01 am, wood <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > WoW! WoW! Slip & Michael
> > > > > Putting the rotten cheese aside, you gentlemen are not worlds apart in
> > > > > your frame of thinking. What I’m seeing here, are two smart guys who
> > > > > clearly have a lot ideas and theories to be told, and I think it will
> > > > > make an interesting discussion. Somewhere along the line, in turn we
> > > > > all can benefit from
> > > > > each other’s intellect. Maybe afterward we can all have some cheese
> > > > > and crackers.
>
> > > > > On Mar 2, 8:28 pm, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Response to Slip:
>
> > > > > > "There is no evidence that thought itself does not exist
> > > > > > within a subconscious realm beyond that of the cognitive self."
>
> > > > > > There is also no evidence that thought is not made of green cheese.
> > > > > > The absence of evidence against something isn't nearly as compelling
> > > > > > as the presence of evidence for something. Moreover, the absence of
> > > > > > evidence against something counts for nothing unless we have strong
> > > > > > extrinsic reasons for believing that thing. There may be strong,
> > > > > > extrinsic reasons for believing in thought that exists withing a
> > > > > > subconscious realm, but you haven't articulated them; at least not
> > > > > > that I can glean.
>
> > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:27 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Welcome Jodie, We see light from stars that are physically non
> > > > > > > existent. There is no evidence that thought itself does not exist
> > > > > > > within a subconscious realm beyond that of the cognitive self.
> > > > > > > As in
> > > > > > > dream consciousness, perhaps within a parallel universe, death
> > > > > > > may be
> > > > > > > a threshold through which the mind continues on, transitioning to
> > > > > > > another level. You are here because you perceive yourself to be
> > > > > > > here
> > > > > > > and so as it is, sometimes, in the dream world you perceive
> > > > > > > yourself
> > > > > > > to be somewhere else. Returning to the conscious mind upon waking
> > > > > > > does not negate the possibility that the dream consciousness you
> > > > > > > experienced is still there, you simply are not in touch with it
> > > > > > > because you woke up. Your thoughts are not exclusively a product
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > self origination, as it is sometimes said, "the thought just
> > > > > > > entered
> > > > > > > my mind". Think about it!
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 21, 11:27 pm, jodie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > the long time question are we immortal will always be on
> > > > > > > > everyones
> > > > > > > > mind, truth of the matter is no where not. the mind is a
> > > > > > > > wonderful
> > > > > > > > thing and can take us so far in the universal world that we
> > > > > > > > live in
> > > > > > > > but once we die, so does the cerebrillium which is basically the
> > > > > > > > central nervous system to the mind, bit like a cable to a
> > > > > > > > computer,
> > > > > > > > once that cable is disconnected so is the computer, with no
> > > > > > > > blood or
> > > > > > > > cells running through the cerebrillium the mind dies so does all
> > > > > > > > thought and conciousness.
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