Yes Michael, Slip may have an answer but remember, it's just that, Slips answer. There are no conclusive proofs of reincarnation as with many of the spiritual persuasions of humanity. What I believe may not be what others believe or there may be theoretical variations. Physicists are approaching new levels of establishing multiple parallel universes, so I would include that information as part of my approach to the multiple living scenarios and the reincarnation theory, with soul existence premise as the underlying foundation. I believe that once a soul exists it retains its value, inherent and accumulated, and can acquire more attributes throughout the history of its existence. The flesh to me is merely a transport vehicle for the soul to experience the physical realm of this world and/or universe, but the soul does not need to establish physical form to experience life, as in angels, apparitions, etc. Birth is merely the entry process for the soul to achieve “physical” form. As Vam stated in the above post: “in the classical reincarnation theory, every creature is a soul!" This view includes all living things and in a sense I agree that all creatures may have a soul but I also believe that each soul retains its species character. To address your observation that population keeps growing over time, I would have to say looking at any Family tree easily explains that occurrence, not only simple math but by all indications it would seem obvious that it has nothing to do with whether a person has a new soul or an old soul. Think of it as something akin to a feral cat populace problem. However, considering your comment: “Since the world population keeps growing, new souls must be coming into being”, I can easily see that you are discounting the possibility that massive amounts of older souls are “Re-Entering” this world and contributing to that population count. For whatever reason, the why of that remains unknown and perhaps initiates another discussion, mainly because I can’t imagine anyone wanting to voluntarily spend anymore time than necessary on planet earth. You ask: “What is your belief as to whether all souls reincarnate?” I’m not sure that all souls reincarnate but all may have the opportunity or ability to do so. Considering that the population of planet earth is less than every soul that was ever born since the beginning of time, I would contend that many other souls are residing somewhere else, whether in a heaven or hell or a utopia within a parallel universe, or possibly in the form of one of your pets. Again I reiterate, my non belief in cross species reincarnation does not negate that possibility, I personally just don’t see that as a possibility. Why should the soul of Einstein return as a pot belly pig? That to me would be ridiculous. Isn’t it more possible that Einstein is already here in the form of one of our leading edge physicists? Your next question presents important aspects of reincarnation: “….when a new baby is born how is it decided whether that new baby gets a reincarnated soul, or an entirely new soul?” It is not decided at all. The baby is either born a new soul or is an old soul re-entering. I often used in teaching the simple analogous approach for explanatory problems. So in this instance I will offer a analogy to explain my belief. If you sit in a chair outside in the openness, let’s say in your yard, you would not hear anything or see anything other than that of your immediate surroundings. This does not mean that there is nothing around you in the form of transmitted energy, radio waves, etc. So in essence there exists around you hundreds of individual streams of energy, except that you must have some type of receiver to intercept them. There is a voice in the air but you won’t hear it without a radio, nor visualize without a TV. This is my perception: Each individual soul is unique as is each individual radio signal and therefore must have a unique set of circumstances, amongst the millions, in order to reincarnate. We know nothing about life, about birth, about death, or about reincarnation. All fall into the multitude of human imaginations, from our primordial beginnings to our technological advances, we as a species in perpetual motion seek to find answers to our inquiries. Who are we, where are we from, what are we doing here, have we been here before, does life have purpose, does life have meaning, is there a god, is there a heaven, is there a hell, how will I die, when will I die, did George Bush destroy America, why are we bailing out private enterprise corporations and many other important questions. Thank you for your participation in Minds Eye!
On Mar 4, 10:04 am, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote: > This may be a silly question that has already been answered by those > who posit reincarnation, or you may have an answer, Slip. > > But it just occurred to me that the world population keeps growing, > over time. So let's begin to flesh out the mechanics of reincarnation > theory. Since the world population keeps growing, new souls must be > coming into being (on the starting premise that souls exist, of > course). What is your belief as to whether all souls reincarnate? Is > it that, each year, of the 300 million people who die (I'm guessing > here, not bothering to look up how many people actually die each > year), those 300 million souls immediately reincarnate? Is there some > lag time? Given that the world population grows by, say, 200 million > a year, does this mean that 200 million entirely new, non-reincarnated > souls are generated each year? > > More importantly, when a new baby is born, how is it decided whether > that new baby gets a reincarnated soul, or an entirely new soul? > > The basic premise of my e-mail is that the number of people dying > falls short of the number of people being born, so not every new birth > can have a reincarnated soul. How does reincarnation theory think > about this? > > On Mar 3, 10:51 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Slip, can you clarify what you mean by saying "Thought, as I see it, is > > > not physical or tangible<<<<<MB > > > Simply for me thought is not something that you can put in a box and > > ship out or place in a zip lock bag for storage. I feel thought and > > imagination are homologous but not identical in that thought itself > > may be considered more of a process, which imagination uses to create > > ideas, concepts, theories etc. > > > though it is the subject of multiple scientific experiments." ?<<<MB > > > I may have hastened to use the expression scientific experiments, no > > intended reference to "thought experiments", but more so leaning > > towards the nature of thought, it's use as in telekinesis, telepathy, > > clairvoyance, the overall power of thinking, and the law of > > attraction, much of which admittedly, is speculative and/or > > hypothetical. > > Discovering the physical nature of thought is aside from what I am > > projecting because once thought takes place it becomes independent of > > it's originating source as does the light emanating from a dead star. > > > > As I understand you, you posed that perspective in opposition to the > > > contention that "all thought > > > and consciousness dies with the death of the physical mind." Are you > > > arguing that when a person is alive, his thoughts are extra-physical, > > > or are you also arguing that consciousness / soul survives death?<<<MB > > > I'm not arguing as much as I am suggesting that thoughts are not > > confined to our physical being. As I posted early on, we do see light > > from stars that are physically non existent. I believe thoughts, > > imaginations and subconscious manifestations do continue to exist > > beyond the physical demise. I feel very strongly that the soul > > survives physical death and also retains life experiences. I believe > > that some people have lived past lives but not all, as some people are > > Old Souls, ie: child prodigies, brilliant scientists etc., while > > others are New Souls ie: idiots without a clue who are easily > > identifiable. I would not consider reincarnation in the sense that > > our soul returns in the form of a different species but contend the > > soul returns as another human being. A human soul does not return as > > a cow in my opinion. I think we retain life experiences within our > > soul and believe that life might be occurring simultaneously within a > > parallel universe and further that there is a level at which time is > > of no consequence. > > Belief in certain aspects of death may give credence to what some know > > as Heaven and the Immortality of the soul. For atheists, pantheists, > > materialists and rationalists there would be no question and > > conversation of such idea would be moot. So what meaning does death > > have to us as we are living? Perhaps it is a reminder that life is > > temporary and that we should pay heed to what lies ahead without > > paying as much attention to amassing materialistic treasures over > > spiritual values. Is death just a marker between lives? Possibly > > and for me most likely, no one has ever come back to tell us anything > > about it. Is there a Karma that carries from one life to the next? I > > would think that if the soul retains it's accumulated properties then > > it might also retain the aspects of retribution. Upon new life in the > > new physical frame is there a clean slate with which to develop? I > > often wonder why some people are born into extreme poverty and pain > > while others live wonderful lives. While both will have to commit to > > death the interim of life seems to have significance in the fact that > > maybe there is for them a lesson to be learned. I would also have to > > examine why it is that a person is born and dies within hours of > > living if there is any significance to life between birth and death. > > Some believe that what we do in this life influences our lives to > > come, so I have to wonder what has that person done within it's few > > hours of life to influence it's future life. Can we lay down a > > prospective for person's future life based on general observation of > > the person's current life. IF so then where might be Hitler, Dahmer, > > Saddam and what are they doing in their future life? Have they > > returned already and are they living among us as we speak? The > > question begets more questions which beget even more as the question > > surrounding the most mysterious aspects of human life remains > > enigmatic; what of death? > > > > As for the Noggin article, it's an interested experiment, to be sure, > > > but did you have a particular perspective on it? To me, it isn't > > > particularly surprising that different parts of the brain light up > > > based on your preferences. Presumably, imaging equipment will > > > eventually be able to see which pictures send more dopamine through > > > your brain and hence are the ones you like. Did you have a different > > > perspective? > > > > On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You are indeed the arbitrator, wood. > > > > We had some discussion on thought not long ago. I started a thread > > > > titled "Noggin News or Nonsense" in which I presented a study. > > > > I'd be interested in your "thought" on it. > > > > >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,490606,00.html > > > > > On Mar 3, 12:01 am, wood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > WoW! WoW! Slip & Michael > > > > > Putting the rotten cheese aside, you gentlemen are not worlds apart in > > > > > your frame of thinking. What I’m seeing here, are two smart guys who > > > > > clearly have a lot ideas and theories to be told, and I think it will > > > > > make an interesting discussion. Somewhere along the line, in turn we > > > > > all can benefit from > > > > > each other’s intellect. Maybe afterward we can all have some cheese > > > > > and crackers. > > > > > > On Mar 2, 8:28 pm, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Response to Slip: > > > > > > > "There is no evidence that thought itself does not exist > > > > > > within a subconscious realm beyond that of the cognitive self." > > > > > > > There is also no evidence that thought is not made of green cheese. > > > > > > The absence of evidence against something isn't nearly as compelling > > > > > > as the presence of evidence for something. Moreover, the absence of > > > > > > evidence against something counts for nothing unless we have strong > > > > > > extrinsic reasons for believing that thing. There may be strong, > > > > > > extrinsic reasons for believing in thought that exists withing a > > > > > > subconscious realm, but you haven't articulated them; at least not > > > > > > that I can glean. > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:27 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Welcome Jodie, We see light from stars that are physically non > > > > > > > existent. There is no evidence that thought itself does not exist > > > > > > > within a subconscious realm beyond that of the cognitive self. > > > > > > > As in > > > > > > > dream consciousness, perhaps within a parallel universe, death > > > > > > > may be > > > > > > > a threshold through which the mind continues on, transitioning to > > > > > > > another level. You are here because you perceive yourself to be > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > and so as it is, sometimes, in the dream world you perceive > > > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > to be somewhere else. Returning to the conscious mind upon waking > > > > > > > does not negate the possibility that the dream consciousness you > > > > > > > experienced is still there, you simply are not in touch with it > > > > > > > because you woke up. Your thoughts are not exclusively a product > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > self origination, as it is sometimes said, "the thought just > > > > > > > entered > > > > > > > my mind". Think about it! > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 11:27 pm, jodie <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > the long time question are we immortal will always be on > > > > > > > > everyones > > > > > > > > mind, truth of the matter is no where not. the mind is a > > > > > > > > wonderful > > > > > > > > thing and can take us so far in the universal world that we > > > > > > > > live in > > > > > > > > but once we die, so does the cerebrillium which is basically the > > > > > > > > central nervous system to the mind, bit like a cable to a > > > > > > > > computer, > > > > > > > > once that cable is disconnected so is the computer, with no > > > > > > > > blood or > > > > > > > > cells running through the cerebrillium the mind dies so does all > > > > > > > > thought and conciousness. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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