Thank you, Matthijs, for the empirical first hand information. Thank you once again, for the unbiased observation.
On 4 Mar, 16:02, Matthijs <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > > A short while ago I was at one of those brain scans (AMC and VU > Amsterdam). I have also participated in the letter test. Yes it is > true when you think of one letter a particular place in the brain gets > active. And you may suggest that when then that part in the brain gets > active you think of that letter. Now there is a big problem with this > test. We tested about 15 people over a few days. And every one of the > 15, was activating a different part in the brain while seeing the same > letter, repeatingly. So to know what is going on in the brains we had > to modify the program 15 times, only to know when someone was thinking > of one letter. There was even a more disturbing fact to the research, > because when people were put to stress same parts in the brain got > active while thinking of a different letter. > Our research conclusion was that it was impossible to create a general > mindmap and that personal mindmaps are very unreliable. Also a > conclusion was that there were very much side effects in different > studies. What made brain science not just science but a sum of a lot > of different studies. > > I am aware that I cannot put a conclusion to research without knowing > the whole deal. Because there is always a flipside to a story. For > example. With magnetic waves we were stimulating a specific part > behind the ear. What happend was that the people exposed to the test > got spiritual feelings. Now a christian would say: You see God created > our mind and put it there. An Atheist would say you see God is an > creation of the mind. It is our personal point of view that makes the > conclusions. So I will take none at all. > > I tell you this because it is the working of the brain, people put > conclusions to infinity. It is my point of view that we should not > seek in the brain but in the thinking that it produces to infinity. > > Matthijs > > On 4 mrt, 05:44, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > There is science on what thought might be, and speculations by > > scientists on what the role and 'mechanics' of thought in science > > might be. It varies from quite precise experiments that demonstrate > > most decisions are made before we are consciously aware of them to a > > metaphysics of creativity. > > > On 4 Mar, 03:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Slip, can you clarify what you mean by saying "Thought, as I see it, is > > > > not physical or tangible<<<<<MB > > > > Simply for me thought is not something that you can put in a box and > > > ship out or place in a zip lock bag for storage. I feel thought and > > > imagination are homologous but not identical in that thought itself > > > may be considered more of a process, which imagination uses to create > > > ideas, concepts, theories etc. > > > > though it is the subject of multiple scientific experiments." ?<<<MB > > > > I may have hastened to use the expression scientific experiments, no > > > intended reference to "thought experiments", but more so leaning > > > towards the nature of thought, it's use as in telekinesis, telepathy, > > > clairvoyance, the overall power of thinking, and the law of > > > attraction, much of which admittedly, is speculative and/or > > > hypothetical. > > > Discovering the physical nature of thought is aside from what I am > > > projecting because once thought takes place it becomes independent of > > > it's originating source as does the light emanating from a dead star. > > > > > As I understand you, you posed that perspective in opposition to the > > > > contention that "all thought > > > > and consciousness dies with the death of the physical mind." Are you > > > > arguing that when a person is alive, his thoughts are extra-physical, > > > > or are you also arguing that consciousness / soul survives death?<<<MB > > > > I'm not arguing as much as I am suggesting that thoughts are not > > > confined to our physical being. As I posted early on, we do see light > > > from stars that are physically non existent. I believe thoughts, > > > imaginations and subconscious manifestations do continue to exist > > > beyond the physical demise. I feel very strongly that the soul > > > survives physical death and also retains life experiences. I believe > > > that some people have lived past lives but not all, as some people are > > > Old Souls, ie: child prodigies, brilliant scientists etc., while > > > others are New Souls ie: idiots without a clue who are easily > > > identifiable. I would not consider reincarnation in the sense that > > > our soul returns in the form of a different species but contend the > > > soul returns as another human being. A human soul does not return as > > > a cow in my opinion. I think we retain life experiences within our > > > soul and believe that life might be occurring simultaneously within a > > > parallel universe and further that there is a level at which time is > > > of no consequence. > > > Belief in certain aspects of death may give credence to what some know > > > as Heaven and the Immortality of the soul. For atheists, pantheists, > > > materialists and rationalists there would be no question and > > > conversation of such idea would be moot. So what meaning does death > > > have to us as we are living? Perhaps it is a reminder that life is > > > temporary and that we should pay heed to what lies ahead without > > > paying as much attention to amassing materialistic treasures over > > > spiritual values. Is death just a marker between lives? Possibly > > > and for me most likely, no one has ever come back to tell us anything > > > about it. Is there a Karma that carries from one life to the next? I > > > would think that if the soul retains it's accumulated properties then > > > it might also retain the aspects of retribution. Upon new life in the > > > new physical frame is there a clean slate with which to develop? I > > > often wonder why some people are born into extreme poverty and pain > > > while others live wonderful lives. While both will have to commit to > > > death the interim of life seems to have significance in the fact that > > > maybe there is for them a lesson to be learned. I would also have to > > > examine why it is that a person is born and dies within hours of > > > living if there is any significance to life between birth and death. > > > Some believe that what we do in this life influences our lives to > > > come, so I have to wonder what has that person done within it's few > > > hours of life to influence it's future life. Can we lay down a > > > prospective for person's future life based on general observation of > > > the person's current life. IF so then where might be Hitler, Dahmer, > > > Saddam and what are they doing in their future life? Have they > > > returned already and are they living among us as we speak? The > > > question begets more questions which beget even more as the question > > > surrounding the most mysterious aspects of human life remains > > > enigmatic; what of death? > > > > > As for the Noggin article, it's an interested experiment, to be sure, > > > > but did you have a particular perspective on it? To me, it isn't > > > > particularly surprising that different parts of the brain light up > > > > based on your preferences. Presumably, imaging equipment will > > > > eventually be able to see which pictures send more dopamine through > > > > your brain and hence are the ones you like. Did you have a different > > > > perspective? > > > > > On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You are indeed the arbitrator, wood. > > > > > We had some discussion on thought not long ago. I started a thread > > > > > titled "Noggin News or Nonsense" in which I presented a study. > > > > > I'd be interested in your "thought" on it. > > > > > >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,490606,00.html > > > > > > On Mar 3, 12:01 am, wood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > WoW! WoW! Slip & Michael > > > > > > Putting the rotten cheese aside, you gentlemen are not worlds apart > > > > > > in > > > > > > your frame of thinking. What I’m seeing here, are two smart guys who > > > > > > clearly have a lot ideas and theories to be told, and I think it > > > > > > will > > > > > > make an interesting discussion. Somewhere along the line, in turn > > > > > > we all can benefit from > > > > > > each other’s intellect. Maybe afterward we can all have some cheese > > > > > > and crackers. > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 8:28 pm, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Response to Slip: > > > > > > > > "There is no evidence that thought itself does not exist > > > > > > > within a subconscious realm beyond that of the cognitive self." > > > > > > > > There is also no evidence that thought is not made of green > > > > > > > cheese. > > > > > > > The absence of evidence against something isn't nearly as > > > > > > > compelling > > > > > > > as the presence of evidence for something. Moreover, the absence > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > evidence against something counts for nothing unless we have > > > > > > > strong > > > > > > > extrinsic reasons for believing that thing. There may be strong, > > > > > > > extrinsic reasons for believing in thought that exists withing a > > > > > > > subconscious realm, but you haven't articulated them; at least not > > > > > > > that I can glean. > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 11:27 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Welcome Jodie, We see light from stars that are physically non > > > > > > > > existent. There is no evidence that thought itself does not > > > > > > > > exist > > > > > > > > within a subconscious realm beyond that of the cognitive self. > > > > > > > > As in > > > > > > > > dream consciousness, perhaps within a parallel universe, death > > > > > > > > may be > > > > > > > > a threshold through which the mind continues on, transitioning > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > another level. You are here because you perceive yourself to > > > > > > > > be here > > > > > > > > and so as it is, sometimes, in the dream world you perceive > > > > > > > > yourself > > > > > > > > to be somewhere else. Returning to the conscious mind upon > > > > > > > > waking > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
