Then where does the mind fit into this? Does that make it squarangulation?
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:36 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > OK, the anatomic triangulation then. The soul is associated with > matters concerning the heart and the spirit with the brain. > > On 10 Mrz., 18:09, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: >> On 10 Mar, 14:55, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > You see no connection? Interesting. Does it in any way interest you >> > that to me soul and spirit are two different things? >> >> There are many who would agree that soul and spirit are two different >> things. But few(er) can define the difference. So, in your opinion, >> what is the difference between them. >> >> I'm familiar with a few different schemas with respect to spiritual >> anatomy, if you will. The one I'm most familiar with is the >> kabbalistic breakdown, which divides generic 'spirit' into 5 parts: >> >> Nephesh: animal soul >> Ruach: spirit >> Neshamah: soul (divine soul rather than the animal nephesh that we >> [animals] all have. This was an additional soul that is, supposedly, >> only granted to humans.) >> Chiah: life force >> Yechidah: divine spark >> >> Now, whilst I understand that schema, I don't know, for sure, if it's >> valid. It certainly COULD be, but how does one test it? Until we can >> scientifically define any of these into a comprehendable field of a >> specific type of measurable energy, Faith is our only guide. And >> Faith, as a guide, has millions of eyes looking in all directions yet >> they're all blind and see nothing. ;-) >> >> I'd only be guessing but I suspect you view spirit as something >> grosser than soul, i.e., soul is smaller, yet, perhaps, more >> concentrated? Which, as a rational way of looking at it, would also >> imply that there are soul/spirit aspect ratios/dilution gradients. >> >> > On 10 Mrz., 13:34, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > On 9 Mar, 15:11, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > Just to make sure I get your soul concept right, Pat, how would you >> > > > describe the difference between a ghost story and a fairy tale? >> >> > > A ghost story is a story about ghosts; a fairy tale is, usually, a >> > > folktale derived from some local folklore. There is some overlap, as >> > > ghost stories may develop into fairy tales and some fairy tales >> > > (because of the former reason) contain ghosts. None of this, though, >> > > has anything to do with the soul. My concept of a soul or spirit is >> > > 'a coherent field of energy'. And, in the above, I extrapolated that, >> > > in order to maintain coherence, the field MUST exist within space- >> > > time, therefore making it a spatio-temporal object. In fact, in order >> > > for it (or anything) to exist, it must exist at some place and at some >> > > time (feel free, though, to put forward an exception if you can think >> > > of one). Existence itself is the property that places us (and >> > > anything) within the confines of space-time. >> >> > > > On 9 Mrz., 14:00, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > On 6 Mar, 18:54, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > Speaking purely theoretically - I accept Orn's point completely, >> > > > > > that >> > > > > > discussions about reincarnation are pure theory - I don't see the >> > > > > > problem. If there is a soul (theoretically speaking, since I have >> > > > > > no >> > > > > > idea what a soul IS), upon disincarnation it (presumably) leaves >> > > > > > space- >> > > > > > time. That's space-TIME. So, theoretically, there's no reason not >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > assume that a soul experiencing disincarnation in 2009 might not be >> > > > > > reincarnated in 1909. Wow, I could even be Albert Einstein in my >> > > > > > next >> > > > > > life. Or Helen of Troy. Or my own grand-dad. >> >> > > > > If the soul/spirit is a coherent field of energy, then it must, >> > > > > somehow, retain coherence. It could only do that given space and >> > > > > time. That is, there is no 'coherence' outside of time (or space). >> > > > > Ghosts, if disincarnate souls, would stand as evidence that spacetime >> > > > > is STILL a factor after disincarnation. >> >> > > > > > Personally, I have never found speculation about reincarnation >> > > > > > particularly useful for living in the here-and-now. >> >> > > > > > Francis >> >> > > > > > On 6 Mrz., 16:36, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > As to theory when it comes to things like >> > > > > > > reincarnation....theories >> > > > > > > are like comic books. Entertaining, and keep one distracted. >> > > > > > > As to proof...the only proof would be if one remembers >> > > > > > > experiencing >> > > > > > > it. I have nothing against those who make such a claim. >> >> > > > > > > On Mar 6, 4:32 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > On 4 Mar, 16:04, Michael Berkovits <[email protected]> >> > > > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > This may be a silly question that has already been answered >> > > > > > > > > by those >> > > > > > > > > who posit reincarnation, or you may have an answer, Slip. >> >> > > > > > > > > But it just occurred to me that the world population keeps >> > > > > > > > > growing, >> > > > > > > > > over time. So let's begin to flesh out the mechanics of >> > > > > > > > > reincarnation >> > > > > > > > > theory. Since the world population keeps growing, new souls >> > > > > > > > > must be >> > > > > > > > > coming into being (on the starting premise that souls exist, >> > > > > > > > > of >> > > > > > > > > course). What is your belief as to whether all souls >> > > > > > > > > reincarnate? Is >> > > > > > > > > it that, each year, of the 300 million people who die (I'm >> > > > > > > > > guessing >> > > > > > > > > here, not bothering to look up how many people actually die >> > > > > > > > > each >> > > > > > > > > year), those 300 million souls immediately reincarnate? Is >> > > > > > > > > there some >> > > > > > > > > lag time? Given that the world population grows by, say, >> > > > > > > > > 200 million >> > > > > > > > > a year, does this mean that 200 million entirely new, >> > > > > > > > > non-reincarnated >> > > > > > > > > souls are generated each year? >> >> > > > > > > > > More importantly, when a new baby is born, how is it decided >> > > > > > > > > whether >> > > > > > > > > that new baby gets a reincarnated soul, or an entirely new >> > > > > > > > > soul? >> >> > > > > > > > > The basic premise of my e-mail is that the number of people >> > > > > > > > > dying >> > > > > > > > > falls short of the number of people being born, so not every >> > > > > > > > > new birth >> > > > > > > > > can have a reincarnated soul. How does reincarnation theory >> > > > > > > > > think >> > > > > > > > > about this? >> >> > > > > > > > Firstly, whose theory? There are theories that don't limit >> > > > > > > > reincarnation to only human form. If you count ALL the >> > > > > > > > lifeforms in >> > > > > > > > existence (and, not just Earthbound ones), THEN you'll see how >> > > > > > > > full >> > > > > > > > the pool of souls, as it were, is. Whilst I take your point, >> > > > > > > > an Earth- >> > > > > > > > limited view must be thrown out. Odds are that there's a huge >> > > > > > > > whopping amount of life out there that could re-incarnate (or >> > > > > > > > re- >> > > > > > > > invegetate, for that matter!). >> > > > > > > > Although there IS the Jewish view of 'The Guph', or 'Hall of >> > > > > > > > Souls' >> > > > > > > > where souls wait for (re-)incarnation. There is also a belief >> > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > the Guph can be emptied and soulless individuals born. This is >> > > > > > > > explored in the Juergen Prochnow/Demi Moore film "The Seventh >> > > > > > > > Sign" (Great film!). >> >> > > > > > > > > On Mar 3, 10:51 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Slip, can you clarify what you mean by saying "Thought, >> > > > > > > > > > > as I see it, is not physical or tangible<<<<<MB >> >> > > > > > > > > > Simply for me thought is not something that you can put in >> > > > > > > > > > a box and >> > > > > > > > > > ship out or place in a zip lock bag for storage. I feel >> > > > > > > > > > thought and >> > > > > > > > > > imagination are homologous but not identical in that >> > > > > > > > > > thought itself >> > > > > > > > > > may be considered more of a process, which imagination >> > > > > > > > > > uses to create >> > > > > > > > > > ideas, concepts, theories etc. >> >> > > > > > > > > > though it is the subject of multiple scientific >> > > > > > > > > > experiments." ?<<<MB >> >> > > > > > > > > > I may have hastened to use the expression scientific >> > > > > > > > > > experiments, no >> > > > > > > > > > intended reference to "thought experiments", but more so >> > > > > > > > > > leaning >> > > > > > > > > > towards the nature of thought, it's use as in telekinesis, >> > > > > > > > > > telepathy, >> > > > > > > > > > clairvoyance, the overall power of thinking, and the law of >> > > > > > > > > > attraction, much of which admittedly, is speculative >> > > > > > > > > > and/or >> > > > > > > > > > hypothetical. >> > > > > > > > > > Discovering the physical nature of thought is aside from >> > > > > > > > > > what I am >> > > > > > > > > > projecting because once thought takes place it becomes >> > > > > > > > > > independent of >> > > > > > > > > > it's originating source as does the light emanating from a >> > > > > > > > > > dead star. >> >> > > > > > > > > > > As I understand you, you posed that perspective in >> > > > > > > > > > > opposition to the >> > > > > > > > > > > contention that "all thought >> > > > > > > > > > > and consciousness dies with the death of the physical >> > > > > > > > > > > mind." Are you >> > > > > > > > > > > arguing that when a person is alive, his thoughts are >> > > > > > > > > > > extra-physical, >> > > > > > > > > > > or are you also arguing that consciousness / soul >> > > > > > > > > > > survives death?<<<MB >> >> > > > > > > > > > I'm not arguing as much as I am suggesting that thoughts >> > > > > > > > > > are not >> > > > > > > > > > confined to our physical being. As I posted early on, we >> > > > > > > > > > do see light >> > > > > > > > > > from stars that are physically non existent. I believe >> > > > > > > > > > thoughts, >> > > > > > > > > > imaginations and subconscious manifestations do continue >> > > > > > > > > > to exist >> > > > > > > > > > beyond the physical demise. I feel very strongly that the >> > > > > > > > > > soul >> > > > > > > > > > survives physical death and also retains life experiences. >> > > > > > > > > > I believe >> > > > > > > > > > that some people have lived past lives but not all, as >> > > > > > > > > > some people are >> > > > > > > > > > Old Souls, ie: child prodigies, brilliant scientists etc., >> > > > > > > > > > while >> > > > > > > > > > others are New Souls ie: idiots without a clue who are >> > > > > > > > > > easily >> > > > > > > > > > identifiable. I would not consider reincarnation in the >> > > > > > > > > > sense that >> > > > > > > > > > our soul returns in the form of a different species but >> > > > > > > > > > contend the >> > > > > > > > > > soul returns as another human being. A human soul does >> > > > > > > > > > not return as >> > > > > > > > > > a cow in my opinion. I think we retain life experiences >> > > > > > > > > > within our >> > > > > > > > > > soul and believe that life might be occurring >> > > > > > > > > > simultaneously within a >> >> ... >> >> Erfahren Sie mehr » > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
