I think that everyone is just doing the best they can to find their way...
On May 21, 12:02 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > There may be a higher consciousness that some refer to as God but > humanity is universally unique converse to the animal kingdom which > might be considered 'beings' living unto a specified will, which we > simply recognize as instinct. We do have qualities that we interpret > as being instinctive but those are not the product of an adherence to > a divine will. When my neighbor asks me how I'm doing and I reply, > doing very well, she immediately follows up with, well I've been > praying for you. This I imagine is her way of saying that my life is > a result of her prayer petition while to me it only demonstrates her > wishing me well. This portion of Jesus' petition of forgiveness is > totally profound "............for they know not what they do" and > bears relevance then and now. People are running amok with > religiosity ad nauseam. > > On May 21, 9:24 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This one one of the many conundrums that led me to Atheism. What purpose is > > served to a God by caring about the individuals, versus caring for the > > system as a whole? > > > [ Attached Message ]From:Slip Disc <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds Eye\"" > > <[email protected]>Date:Thu, 21 May 2009 06:30:18 -0700 > > (PDT)Local:Thurs, May 21 2009 8:30 amSubject:[Mind's Eye] Re: the blink of > > an eye > > > Gruff, this is the reason for my edit above. I don't see that God > > would have a Will for us. Our lives are not the result of a Will of > > God but more so the Will of humanity, individually and as a whole. To > > suggest a Will of God would thrust one into a search pattern trying to > > find what that Will is for the individual thereby veering the > > individual off the path of personal will. This is the premise of many > > a religion, that Individual Will is somehow the Pandora's box of all > > humanity's ills, that we should submit to a Divine Will. > > > On May 20, 12:19 pm, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I simply don't see why the world or the universe has to have objective > > > meaning. Why can't it just be and let any meaning or purpose comes > > > from what we make of it. Is it not this way in our own individual > > > lives? They gain meaning and purpose in what we make of them. > > > > On May 20, 3:19 am, Justintruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think that there is a way where scientific reasoning has established > > > > that the meaning of the world is basically a bunch of objects moving > > > > in space. To that way of reasoning, strictly speaking it is not > > > > science but scientism, further questions about what the world means > > > > would reveal only information that is subjective and therefore only > > > > about your perceptions and hence, unlike the "external" world, unreal. > > > > What is needed instead is factual investigation of the external > > > > particulars. What is needed is science itself. It is the only real > > > > truth. > > > > > The dominant alternative to this view is to to realize that the world > > > > means in time. Basically, to speak in scientismist terms, which is > > > > distortive but sometimes the only way to communicate.... The world is > > > > like a meaning transmitter. In some views of this, meaning means and > > > > one then is "called" to respond, meaning to recognize what has been > > > > said and, to respond appropriately. Sometimes it is called a "voice" > > > > and in fact it can be remarkably like one but it is not audible but > > > > rather the meaning spoken is just plain clear. Ultimately ones > > > > response to that is the foundation of ethics in that world view, and > > > > it is also the foundation of aesthetics. In some views of this the > > > > response is captured in what science views as the objective world, > > > > meaning that the content of the meaning of the world and ones response > > > > is,... I will use a vague term deliberately and avoid using the word > > > > "cause" intentionally... "reflected" in the "external" part of the > > > > world. Some believe that no causality is involved and it is merely > > > > synchronistic which implies a non random arrangement and some, as in > > > > some views of karma believe there is a kind of cause and effect > > > > involved. > > > > > In either case, if you are originally convinced of scientism, and > > > > really believe that the category of reality is the "external" world, > > > > then this "reflection" is necessary to confirm the reality of the > > > > mystical experience. However, if you in fact have the experience there > > > > is no need for this confirmation and the need for "miracles" in the > > > > extreme sense to provide "evidence" is ridiculous. You can just look > > > > outside your window, or at your ceiling while lying in bed. Nothing > > > > more is needed. > > > > > So on one level this is an exhortation or encouragement or assurance > > > > that we can "manipulate" this ... again being vague and using a term I > > > > learned in a bar from a brilliant young mystic.... the synchromesh.... > > > > that we have both the ability and most importantly that we have the > > > > discipline required to conform. That it is not only in our capability > > > > but easy. Also that conformance will in fact rid the evil not just > > > > from our minds but from our lives. > > > > > It is a characteristic of the tradition he writes from, that of the > > > > shaman, that "manipulation" is in fact possible but anyone who has > > > > read his work understands that this is not simple "techne" but > > > > requires the shaman to walk the path. It is after all the "way of > > > > knowledge" not "knowledge". And attempting to mix one's own will up in > > > > this and to dominate this reality is Luciferian. But.. well as they > > > > say in the mystical world business... shit happens and if its not > > > > "effects" or "affects" its something so close to it as to be > > > > practically indistinguishable. Things do occur . Still the notion of > > > > manipulation and its contrast with participation is very interesting > > > > and it is doubtful that one can really cut anything out, or in fact do > > > > anything, when one walks on the way, except choose to listen or not. > > > > The role of the will becomes different. It is not the expression of > > > > ego. One can not but conform to the way, or refuse it as it reveals > > > > itself. In that sense what is meant is that you in fact can conform > > > > and if that means that, at this moment you must get up out of your > > > > chair and leave your computer behind and all of your job, your husband > > > > and maybe even your kids - everything- if that is what conformance > > > > means, then he is saying don't worry. If you are knocked off your > > > > horse you can quit being a soldier - no problem. All of that can be > > > > cut out easily. It is not hard to walk the way of knowledge. Giving up > > > > those things is easy. It is not like the man who was told to "Sell > > > > everything he had and give it to the poor and come follow me." who > > > > went away saddened. It is easy. Just let it go. The cross... no sweat. > > > > (Excuse me while I get my tongue extracted from my cheek) > > > > > It can get a little extreme. The bible has a story of a man called to > > > > kill his own son. It is interesting in its extremity. I think that I > > > > would not believe it if I personally was asked to do something like > > > > that. I'd say "Oh comon I know your just kiddin...I know you...you > > > > would never have me do something like that" > > > > > I think it means that our minds and lives can be made totally > > > > consistent with the will of God and if it is the world will be > > > > transformed. Socially, it is the core realization under the 60s that > > > > we can all just decide to let all of this fighting go, we can just > > > > tune in, turn on, drop out and all of the wars and unhappiness will be > > > > replaced by the garden. Just do it, man. > > > > > It is the same message as the monkeys on the Japanese temple "Hear no > > > > evil..." etc One can conform ones thoughts, and through them, and the > > > > mystery of karma, the universe, and we can do that in an instant. > > > > Decision does not take time. It must, of its nature be instantaneous. > > > > It is always as he says... "in the blink of an eye". The amazing thing > > > > is how enlightenment occurs in an instant. We get up and just set off. > > > > Then we are "on the way"... in this case the ....Yaqui way of > > > > knowledge. And then we are bulletproof. Just like the ghost shirt > > > > society. > > > > > Understood through fundamentalist eyes this would be a disaster. But > > > > wisdom has a way of knowing what it means properly. > > > > > How all this will be understood once the current idiotic debate > > > > between science and religion is over with and we finally get down to > > > > something more serious with aware people to try to understand it is > > > > unknown to me. However, it is probably going to require a change in > > > > the meaning of the goal of understanding itself. It will include much > > > > more of the biblical sense of the word "know". And it will require > > > > response. It is, after all, not a dull life. Is it? > > > > > (... now I am a little afraid that your not reading....I hope you did > > > > not stop at that part about getting up from your computer and...;) .) > > > > > Anyway, Enjoy! > > > > > On May 18, 6:49 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > "We hardly ever realize that we can cut anything out of our lives, > > > > > anytime, in theblinkof an eye." > > > > > - Carlos Castaneda (1931 - ) > > > > > > What do you think it means? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
