"...more practical levels of transparency." - archy Not so sure how much I would have to do with such a state...seems more to be the domain of the divine.
On Jun 25, 3:59 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Some quite old sociology probably would help if we could recognise it > in our thinking and action more often. Goffman talked about 'total > organisations' - from which we might recognise that many have very > little choice and all of us should be wary of total thinking. Just as > we yearn for integrity, someone is using the ploy of sincerity on us - > just as we may realise this we may be using the shell of scepticism in > order to certainly not be able to trust. In the end thinking doesn't > have to be this piss-poor and we could have more practical levels of > transparency. > > On 25 June, 23:24, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > It's a tough job, but someone has to do it! ;-) > > > On Jun 25, 2:00 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Orny, what would I do - what would the world do - without you > > > correcting me and my eye-sight! > > > > On 25 Jun., 19:00, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > gabbers, as nice as it would be to give grasshopper the credit for > > > > playing the oldest, here is a photo, and yes, the sound too...of the > > > > oldest. 'Bill', in your article is playing wood (bamboo), this is > > > > vulture wing bone. > > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8117915.stm > > > > > On Jun 25, 9:05 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Relax, dj, that rope has long been > > > > > cut.http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/mus... > > > > > > On 25 Jun., 17:39, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > And how would House Johnson deal with the Fremen? Are you prepared > > > > > > for > > > > > > everything planned by Molly's Missionaria Protectiva (aided by the > > > > > > Mentat, Archytas)? Not to mention Tinker's Face Dancers, along with > > > > > > Chris Muad'Dib Jenkins and his sister, Gabby "the Knife". Me, I'm > > > > > > dreaming Spice Dreams with Slip, who's an expert! > > > > > > > On 25 Jun., 15:41, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > And we could call this life Melange. The spice of knowledge. > > > > > > > House > > > > > > > Johnson to control production and distribution. A race of former > > > > > > > humanoids twisted by massive dosages of the Spice learn to bend > > > > > > > space > > > > > > > and travel is reinvented. Yeah. > > > > > > > > dj > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:31 AM, archytas<[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > There's been a recent wall built on the question of how we might > > > > > > > > better believe what we know. One of my guesses follows Popper > > > > > > > > in that > > > > > > > > we can't know now what we will know in the future. Say this > > > > > > > > small > > > > > > > > moon of Saturn in the news does have an ocean and life. Say we > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > expand our brains by eating this life and there is an expansion > > > > > > > > similar to that alleged in our progression from common > > > > > > > > ancestors that > > > > > > > > didn't affect the other apes in the same way. We might > > > > > > > > actually be > > > > > > > > able to see through the madness, understand travel in different > > > > > > > > ways > > > > > > > > and so on (bit like a video game). On the other hand, if we > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > stop fighting each other, maybe life would change anyway ...we > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > bother with this latter much, seemingly oblivious to just how > > > > > > > > much the > > > > > > > > future could influence thinking and our lives. > > > > > > > > > On 25 June, 07:01, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> It's a Humpty Dumpty ism, but all truth knows that one replaces > > > > > > > >> another and another in succession to maintain the position on > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> wall. Scrabblers pile the bricks and mix the mortar and then > > > > > > > >> wonder > > > > > > > >> why the wall is so high and out of reach. > > > > > > > > >> On Jun 25, 12:31 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > A very apt version of the conundrum Gabby. I think we are > > > > > > > >> > dealing > > > > > > > >> > with madness and consequently a rationality of the mad. > > > > > > > >> > Habermas was > > > > > > > >> > slated for providing too much of an answer, thus becoming > > > > > > > >> > just the > > > > > > > >> > next 'rule-giver', just another intellectual telling us what > > > > > > > >> > we should > > > > > > > >> > do. I just want us not to have to scrabble about making > > > > > > > >> > livings and > > > > > > > >> > get rid of the over-powerful. It just seems so damned > > > > > > > >> > difficult to > > > > > > > >> > even try. > > > > > > > > >> > On 19 June, 17:32, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > I don't know. To think one can promote lying in a society > > > > > > > >> > > is as naive > > > > > > > >> > > as thinking one can promote truing the society. In the > > > > > > > >> > > world you speak > > > > > > > >> > > of, the child is encouraged to publically shout out that > > > > > > > >> > > the Emperor > > > > > > > >> > > is naked while being expected to quietly learn the > > > > > > > >> > > taylor's job in > > > > > > > >> > > their chambers. What is it you're really after? > > > > > > > > >> > > On 19 Jun., 15:11, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > Habermas is almost impossible to read, which is a great > > > > > > > >> > > > shame. > > > > > > > >> > > > Academic critique of his work actually ends up rather > > > > > > > >> > > > like Gabby's few > > > > > > > >> > > > lines, extrapolated to ridiculous length. He was > > > > > > > >> > > > gazetted into the > > > > > > > >> > > > Hitler Youth at the end of the war, something that only > > > > > > > >> > > > goes to show > > > > > > > >> > > > we can all end up serving perverse human interests. > > > > > > > >> > > > Francis' notion of > > > > > > > >> > > > what might happen through wider communication and the > > > > > > > >> > > > possible > > > > > > > >> > > > differences new technologies might bring to 'argument' > > > > > > > >> > > > is probably key > > > > > > > >> > > > to whether we have a future or not. There has been a > > > > > > > >> > > > debate around > > > > > > > >> > > > legitimation portrayed in academe as between Habermas, > > > > > > > >> > > > Lyotard, > > > > > > > >> > > > Derrida, Foucault and others. My own view is that the > > > > > > > >> > > > insularity of > > > > > > > >> > > > this debate (most people have barely heard of it and its > > > > > > > >> > > > protagonists) > > > > > > > >> > > > is itself part of the problem. Press in the UK has been > > > > > > > >> > > > ridiculing our > > > > > > > >> > > > unworthy politicians through expense claims leaked to > > > > > > > >> > > > one newspaper. > > > > > > > >> > > > Today, Parliament has "published" the details under so > > > > > > > >> > > > much black ink > > > > > > > >> > > > that we would know less had we been left to rely on > > > > > > > >> > > > official > > > > > > > >> > > > "transparency" and we will get much the same when the > > > > > > > >> > > > Iraq scandal is > > > > > > > >> > > > hidden from us next year. What we lack is honesty and > > > > > > > >> > > > substantial > > > > > > > >> > > > links between this and its use in day-to-day actions. > > > > > > > >> > > > Many people > > > > > > > >> > > > believe it is childish to look at work like this because > > > > > > > >> > > > the real > > > > > > > >> > > > world is so dirty. I suspect the real childishness lies > > > > > > > >> > > > in fear we all > > > > > > > >> > > > have of standing up to the bullying system, which we see > > > > > > > >> > > > as holding > > > > > > > >> > > > all the cards We know bosses and politicians are bad, > > > > > > > >> > > > but are > > > > > > > >> > > > generally weak-kneed in the face of power and easy > > > > > > > >> > > > enough to buy off > > > > > > > >> > > > with a few trinkets and the threat of poverty if we > > > > > > > >> > > > stray into telling > > > > > > > >> > > > the truth. Much as I like Habermas, I'm sure these days > > > > > > > >> > > > that work > > > > > > > >> > > > like his is pussy-footing pisswitter lamenting our lack > > > > > > > >> > > > of courage. > > > > > > > > >> > > > His academic critics often referred to him as 'the > > > > > > > >> > > > Professor' as they > > > > > > > >> > > > felt he was advocating a system that had to be followed > > > > > > > >> > > > to put the > > > > > > > >> > > > system right - perhaps they feared yet another righteous > > > > > > > >> > > > theory as > > > > > > > >> > > > potentially Nazi or Stalinist, even if Jurgen was a man > > > > > > > >> > > > of the left. > > > > > > > >> > > > Academe was wet-through with cultural identity garbage > > > > > > > >> > > > back then and > > > > > > > >> > > > still is. I just noticed he was weak on science, long > > > > > > > >> > > > on unnecessary > > > > > > > >> > > > explanation and broadly right on the destruction of what > > > > > > > >> > > > others termed > > > > > > > >> > > > organic links. I was looking for an explanation of why > > > > > > > >> > > > people choose > > > > > > > >> > > > to follow such stupid ways or get caught up in them. My > > > > > > > >> > > > own view is > > > > > > > >> > > > this happens and is a result of the way we promote lying > > > > > > > >> > > > in our > > > > > > > >> > > > societies. The current situation in Iran would be a > > > > > > > >> > > > good example. We > > > > > > > >> > > > don't know whether the election was fixed to favour the > > > > > > > >> > > > Maddinnerjacket, but there are ways to find out > > > > > > > >> > > > (properly conducted > > > > > > > >> > > > and sampled polling) and it ain't what Kameni is doing, > > > > > > > >> > > > even if he > > > > > > > >> > > > might be right about miserable Western interference. > > > > > > > >> > > > It's too hard > > > > > > > >> > > > anywhere for a populace to shift through the dross to > > > > > > > >> > > > get at truth > > > > > > > >> > > > because of liars and what is so easily hidden or flashed > > > > > > > >> > > > in front of > > > > > > > >> > > > us as the good. In our world, the child seeking to > > > > > > > >> > > > shout out that the > > > > > > > >> > > > Emperor is naked is already silenced. > > > > > > > > >> > > > On 18 June, 20:32, frantheman > > > > > > > >> > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Jürgen Habermas is 80 today. He is one of the most > > > > > > > >> > > > > influential > > > > > > > >> > > > > contemporary thinkers in the areas of philosophy, > > > > > > > >> > > > > sociology and > > > > > > > >> > > > > cultural > > > > > > > >> > > > > science:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habermas,_Jürgen > > > > > > > > >> > > > > One of his most interesting works is "The Theory of > > > > > > > >> > > > > Communicative > > > > > > > >> > > > > Action." I find his analysis of the development of > > > > > > > >> > > > > contemporary > > > > > > > >> > > > > society interesting, particularly his analysis of the > > > > > > > >> > > > > way modern > > > > > > > >> > > > > society can be seen as an unequal dialectic between > > > > > > > >> > > > > private, > > > > > > > >> > > > > subjective "lifeworlds" and an ever more powerful > > > > > > > >> > > > > "system." His > > > > > > > >> > > > > thinking in this area is useful because it offers an > > > > > > > >> > > > > explanation for > > > > > > > >> > > > > some trends we observe in contemporary society, for > > > > > > > >> > > > > example,- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
