Well I went through section by section and asked questions and pointed out what as I see as falsehoods. and the comments of seemaa were replaced and the quote is the original put back up and my comments were no longer there.
Probably for the best , my good friend Abi's wife does not like me either and she is a cleric.. It is not important i will write it off to Allah keeping me out of trouble. Allan PS It really was not very nice, but I never have liked when one thing is said and the actions speak of another. Allan On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>wrote: > You're not on moderation, Allan. Why did you think you are? > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 11:04 AM, iam deheretic <[email protected]>wrote: > >> So I am on moderation now?? interesting >> seems some topics are just off limits >> Allan >> > > >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 1:14 PM, GarrieMushet <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> The only reason you think that other people have interrpretted the >>> Qur'an wrongly is because you have compared it you YOUR >>> interpretation. And what makes you so sure that YOUR interpretation is >>> correct? >>> >>> Well, first of all, YOUR interpretation is more moral, yes? Well if >>> morality is supposed to come FROM the Qur'an, then where is this >>> morality that you are using to judge your interpretation OF the >>> Qur'an? That's right, somewhere else. >>> >>> The fact of the matter is that morality is a subjective thing, and so >>> is your interpretation of the Qur'an. There are no guidelines that >>> come with the Qur'an which tell you how to interpret it. Without such >>> guidelines, anything goes. Even if there were guidelines, there would >>> be different types of people interpretting the guidelines in different >>> ways. This inability to get a 'correct' interpretation of the Qur'an >>> makes it a really bad source of morality, and it also makes any >>> statement about what the Qur'an is supposed to be about if you >>> interpret it 'correctly' are meaningless and void. >>> >>> The only thing we can say is that religious texts have a far higher >>> frequency of violent readers than non-religious books. The conclusion >>> I can draw from this is that there is something inherently wrong with >>> treating religious texts in the way that people treat them. Part of >>> the 'wrong' way we treat is, is the presupposition that there is a >>> 'correct' way to interpret it - this just leads to extremists being >>> able to justify their extremism, and anybody else being able to >>> justify anything else. >>> >>> On Jul 22, 11:29 am, deripsni <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > There have been many wars and attrocities carried out in the name of >>> > one religion or another. That should be a big hint to stay away from >>> > religion!!! The "holy source" that you refer to is simply another book >>> > written by humans. I cannot fathom how anything 'holy' could be found >>> > in a book. Yes, the Bible and Qur'an give some good life-lessons. So >>> > do a lot of other books. I believe the problem isn't the words of the >>> > books, but the very fact that they represent a religion. Religion >>> > often breeds fanaticism which consequently leads to many attrocities. >>> > If everybody tried to be a concerned and helpful citizen, religion >>> > would become less relevant in my opinion. >>> > >>> > On Jul 21, 11:09 pm, ""SeeMaa"" <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > Hi .. >>> > > Read this .. Give me your opinion >>> > >>> > > Islam Condemns Terrorism >>> > >>> > > Some people who say they are acting in the name of religion may >>> > > misunderstand their religion or practice it wrongly. For this reason, >>> > > it is a mistake to form any idea of that religion from the activities >>> > > of these people. The best way to understand Islam is through its holy >>> > > source. >>> > >>> > > The holy source of Islam is the Qur'an; and the model of morality in >>> > > the Qur'an is completely different from the image of it formed in the >>> > > minds of some westerners. The Qur'an is based on the concepts of >>> > > morality, love, compassion, mercy, modesty, self-sacrifice, tolerance >>> > > and peace, and a Muslim who truly lives according to these moral >>> > > precepts is highly refined, thoughtful, tolerant, trustworthy and >>> > > accommodating. To those around him he gives love, respect, peace of >>> > > mind and a sense of the joy of life. >>> > >>> > > Islam Is A Religion Of Peace And Well-Being >>> > >>> > > The word Islam has the same meaning as "peace" in Arabic. Islam is a >>> > > religion that came down to offer humanity a life filled with the >>> peace >>> > > and well-being in which God's eternal mercy and compassion is >>> > > manifested in the world. God invites all people to accept the moral >>> > > teachings of the Qur'an as a model whereby mercy, compassion, >>> > > tolerance and peace may be experienced in the world. In Surat al- >>> > > Baqara verse 208, this command is given: >>> > >>> > > You who believe! Enter absolutely into peace (Islam). Do not follow >>> in >>> > > the footsteps of Satan. He is an outright enemy to you. >>> > >>> > > As we see in this verse, people will experience well-being and >>> > > happiness by living according to the moral teaching of the Qur'an. >>> > >>> > > God Condemns Mischief >>> > >>> > > God has commanded humanity to avoid evil; he has forbidden >>> immorality, >>> > > rebellion, cruelty, aggressiveness, murder and bloodshed. Those who >>> do >>> > > not obey this command of God are walking in the steps of Satan, as it >>> > > says in the verse above, and have adopted an attitude that God has >>> > > clearly declared unlawful. Of the many verses that bear on this >>> > > subject, here are only two: >>> > >>> > > But as for those who break God's contract after it has been agreed >>> and >>> > > sever what God has commanded to be joined, and cause corruption in >>> the >>> > > earth, the curse will be upon them. They will have the Evil Abode. >>> > > (Surat ar-Ra'd: 25) >>> > > Seek the abode of the hereafter with what God has given you, without >>> > > forgetting your portion of the world. And do good as God has been >>> good >>> > > to you. And do not seek to cause mischief on earth. God does not love >>> > > mischief makers.' (Surat al-Qasas: 77) >>> > >>> > > As we can see, God has forbidden every kind of mischievous acts in >>> the >>> > > religion of Islam including terrorism and violence, and condemned >>> > > those who commit such deeds. A Muslim lends beauty to the world and >>> > > improves it. >>> > >>> > > Islam Defends Tolerance And Freedom Of Speech >>> > >>> > > [COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]Islam is a religion which fosters freedom >>> of >>> > > life, ideas and thought. It has forbidden tension and conflict among >>> > > people, calumny, suspicion and even having negative thoughts about >>> > > another individual. >>> > >>> > > Islam has not only forbidden terror and violence, but also even the >>> > > slightest imposition of any idea on another human being. >>> > >>> > > There is no compulsion in religion. Right guidance has become clearly >>> > > distinct from error. Anyone who rejects false gods and believes in >>> God >>> > > has grasped the Firmest Handhold, which will never give way. God is >>> > > All-Hearing, All-Knowing. (Surat al-Baqara: 256) >>> > > So remind, you need only to remind. You cannot compel them to >>> believe. >>> > > (Surat al-Ghashiyah: 22) >>> > >>> > > To force anyone to believe in a religion or to practice it, is >>> against >>> > > the spirit and essence of Islam. Because it is necessary that faith >>> be >>> > > accepted with free will and conscience. Of course, Muslims may urge >>> > > one another to keep the moral precepts taught in the Qur'an, but they >>> > > never use compulsion. In any case, an individual cannot be induced to >>> > > the practice of religion by either threat or offering him a worldly >>> > > privilege. >>> > >>> > > Let us imagine a completely opposite model of society. For example, a >>> > > world in which people are forced by law to practice religion. Such a >>> > > model of society is completely contrary to Islam because faith and >>> > > worship have value only when they are directed toward God. If there >>> > > were a system that forced people to believe and worship, people would >>> > > be religious only out of fear of the system. What is acceptable from >>> > > the point of view of religion is that religion be practiced in an >>> > > environment where freedom of conscience is permitted, and that it be >>> > > practiced only for the approval of God. >>> > >>> > > God Has Made The Killing Of Innocent People Unlawful >>> > >>> > > According to the Qur'an, one of the greatest sins is to kill a human >>> > > being who has committed no fault: >>> > >>> > > ...If someone kills another person - unless it is in retaliation for >>> > > someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he >>> > > had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, >>> > > it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to >>> > > them with Clear Signs but even after that many of them committed >>> > > outrages in the earth. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 32) >>> > > Those who do not call on any other deity together with God and do not >>> > > kill anyone God has made inviolate, except with the right to do so, >>> > > and do not fornicate; anyone who does that will receive an evil >>> > > punishment. (Surat al-Furqan: 68) >>> > >>> > > As we can see in the verses above, those who kill innocent human >>> > > beings without a cause are threatened with evil punishment. God has >>> > > revealed that killing one person is as great a sin as killing all >>> > > mankind. Anyone who respected the prerogatives of God would not do >>> > > harm to even one individual, let alone murdering thousands of >>> innocent >>> > > people. Those who think that they will escape justice and punishment >>> > > in this world will never escape the account they must give in the >>> > > Presence of God on the Last Day. So, those believers who know they >>> > > will give an account to God after their death, will be very careful >>> > > about respecting the limits God has established. >>> > >>> > > God Commands Believers To Be Compassionate And Merciful >>> > >>> > > In this verse, Muslim morality is explained: >>> > >>> > > ...To be one of those who believe and urge each other to >>> steadfastness >>> > > and urge each other to compassion. Those are the Companions of the >>> > > Right. (Surat al-Balad: 17-18) >>> > >>> > > As we see in this verse, one of the most important moral precepts >>> that >>> > > God has sent down to His servants so that they may receive salvation >>> > > and mercy and attain Paradise, is to "urge each other to compassion". >>> > >>> > > Islam as described in the Qur'an is a modern, enlightened, >>> progressive >>> > > religion. A Muslim is above all a person of peace; he is tolerant >>> with >>> > > a democratic spirit, cultured, enlightened, honest, knowledgable >>> about >>> > > art and science and civilized. >>> > >>> > > A Muslim educated in the fine moral teaching of the Qur'an, >>> approaches >>> > > everyone with the love that Islam expects. He shows respect for every >>> > > idea and he values art and aesthetics. He is conciliatory in the face >>> > > of every event, diminishing tension and restoring amity. In societies >>> > > composed of individuals such as this, there will be a higher >>> > > civilization, a higher social morality, more joy, happiness, justice, >>> > > security, abundance and blessings than in the most modern nations of >>> > > the world today. >>> > >>> > > God Has Commanded Tolerance And Forgiveness >>> > >>> > > Surat al-A'raf, verse 199, which says "practice forgiveness", >>> > > expresses the concept of forgiveness and tolerance which is one of >>> the >>> > > basic principles of the religion of Islam. >>> > >>> > > When we look at Islamic history, we can see clearly how Muslims >>> > > established this important precept of the moral teaching of the >>> Qur'an >>> > > in their social life. At every point in their advance, Muslims >>> > > destroyed unlawful practices and created a free and tolerant >>> > > environment. In the areas of religion, language and culture, they >>> made >>> > > it possible for people totally opposite to each other to live under >>> > > the same roof in freedom and peace, thereby giving to those subject >>> to >>> > > them the advantages of knowledge, wealth and position. >>> > >>> > > Likewise, one of the most important reasons that the large and >>> > > widespread Ottoman Empire was able to sustain its existence for so >>> > > many centuries was that its way of life was directed by the tolerance >>> > > and understanding brought by Islam. For centuries Muslims have been >>> > > characterized by their tolerance and compassion. In every period of >>> > > time they have been the most just and merciful of people. All ethnic >>> > > groups within this multi-national community freely practiced the >>> > > religions they have followed for years and enjoyed every opportunity >>> > > to live in their own cultures and worship in their own way. >>> > >>> > > Indeed, the particular tolerance of Muslims, when practiced as >>> > > commanded in the Qur'an, can alone bring peace and well-being to the >>> > > whole world. The Qur'an refers to this particular kind of tolerance: >>> > >>> > > A good action and a bad action are not the same. Repel the bad >>> > >>> > ... >>> > >>> > read more ยป >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> I_D Allan >> >> >> >> -- ( ) I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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