On Jul 28, 12:59 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
> " I always found it to be the expression of an attitude of freedom
> from a dictatorship of "things." "
>
> Wow, Fran ! I see the mystery of mastery in this expression of yours.
> Greatly liberating.
You may find it liberating, I don't. I find a warm shower liberating,
and it does not dictate me or master me. I just like it. I would
choose to have one.
I like things. If you look at a thing like a tool, what is not to
like?
I don't like being without tools. I am not interested in fancy
clothes or jewelery at all, but I do like my tools. Men call them
"toys" sometimes. I like those too. I have a few. They are still
tools to me.
Being poor sucks if you ask me. I tried it , didn't care for it. I
am certainly not rich though. I would be willing to give it a go! I
know: I can't buy happiness. But you can do lots of wonderful
things. You can eat better, sleep better (or at least in more
comfort) travel easier
and so much more! Yes, there are problems. Overall? I will take
the things, thank you.
>
> The freedom you speak of is an attainment. However, untill it happens,
> as a clear realisation and principle feature in our value - system, we
> are allowed to see our value in " things," to indulge in and be
> dictated by them. The latter is the first cause of most of our
> problems, historical and existential, but it pre - exists and pre -
> dominates, and makes our socio - politico - economic world go around.
>
> Yes, who would believe, our worldly order is found on an absence ...
> of the " attitude of freedom from a dictatorship of "things." !"
>
> On Jul 28, 10:02 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In the course of the recent discussion here concerning the reposting
> > of Minds Eye contributions in other internet fora, the question of
> > copyright arose. It got me to thinking about the idea of intellectual
> > ownership and the idea of possession in general.
>
> > We have all seen the Westerns in which the Native Americans sold away
> > title to land for nothing, or pittances because the white man's
> > concept of "owning" land was incomprehensible to them. Throughout
> > history, many of those whom we regard as great thinkers have been very
> > critical of the benefits of possessions and owning things. Indeed, a
> > controversy centred on the absolute poverty of Christ raged throughout
> > the medieval Christian Church and completely split the Franciscan
> > movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > Franciscans#Renewed_controversy_on_the_question_of_poverty). In this
> > context, it is perhaps interesting to note that one of the all-time
> > heroes here on Minds Eye, William of Occam, was a proponent of the
> > principle of absolute poverty and lost his job as English Franciscan
> > provincial and was excommunicated as a result.
>
> > Personally I spent almost a decade as a Dominican friar, during which
> > time I took a "vow of poverty." I don't want to go into a discussion
> > on the extent to which Catholic monks actually live according to this
> > vow here, personally, I always found it to be the expression of an
> > attitude of freedom from a dictatorship of "things." It may also have
> > left an indelible mark on me in that in almost a quarter of a century
> > since leaving the order I have been pretty bad at earning,
> > accumulating and retaining material wealth and possessions. During my
> > life I have gone through a number of pretty radical changes, which
> > have often involved leaving nearly everything behind and starting
> > again. Such processes have been, inevitably, traumatic, although not
> > necessarily negative. One of the things that has helped is the fact
> > that I have never felt particularly attached to "things". But maybe my
> > sense of "ownership" is just underdeveloped, or damaged!
>
> > There's a German saying which states that "he who has possessions has
> > worries." Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, one of the founders (!) of modern
> > anarchism went farther with his statement that "property is theft."
> > What does it mean to "own" something anyway?
>
> > To use Molly's words: What do you think?
>
> > Francis- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
