You 're welcome to your likes, BB ! And, I understand this thread to be about ' ownership.' It's a purely mental thing. One might have millions, and yet not have the least sense of ownership.
We all here are old enough to know the virtues of ' things ' and money. You 've extolled them well. On Jul 29, 4:52 am, BB47 <[email protected]> wrote: > On Jul 28, 12:59 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > " I always found it to be the expression of an attitude of freedom > > from a dictatorship of "things." " > > > Wow, Fran ! I see the mystery of mastery in this expression of yours. > > Greatly liberating. > > You may find it liberating, I don't. I find a warm shower liberating, > and it does not dictate me or master me. I just like it. I would > choose to have one. > > I like things. If you look at a thing like a tool, what is not to > like? > I don't like being without tools. I am not interested in fancy > clothes or jewelery at all, but I do like my tools. Men call them > "toys" sometimes. I like those too. I have a few. They are still > tools to me. > > Being poor sucks if you ask me. I tried it , didn't care for it. I > am certainly not rich though. I would be willing to give it a go! I > know: I can't buy happiness. But you can do lots of wonderful > things. You can eat better, sleep better (or at least in more > comfort) travel easier > and so much more! Yes, there are problems. Overall? I will take > the things, thank you. > > > > > > > The freedom you speak of is an attainment. However, untill it happens, > > as a clear realisation and principle feature in our value - system, we > > are allowed to see our value in " things," to indulge in and be > > dictated by them. The latter is the first cause of most of our > > problems, historical and existential, but it pre - exists and pre - > > dominates, and makes our socio - politico - economic world go around. > > > Yes, who would believe, our worldly order is found on an absence ... > > of the " attitude of freedom from a dictatorship of "things." !" > > > On Jul 28, 10:02 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > In the course of the recent discussion here concerning the reposting > > > of Minds Eye contributions in other internet fora, the question of > > > copyright arose. It got me to thinking about the idea of intellectual > > > ownership and the idea of possession in general. > > > > We have all seen the Westerns in which the Native Americans sold away > > > title to land for nothing, or pittances because the white man's > > > concept of "owning" land was incomprehensible to them. Throughout > > > history, many of those whom we regard as great thinkers have been very > > > critical of the benefits of possessions and owning things. Indeed, a > > > controversy centred on the absolute poverty of Christ raged throughout > > > the medieval Christian Church and completely split the Franciscan > > > movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > > > Franciscans#Renewed_controversy_on_the_question_of_poverty). In this > > > context, it is perhaps interesting to note that one of the all-time > > > heroes here on Minds Eye, William of Occam, was a proponent of the > > > principle of absolute poverty and lost his job as English Franciscan > > > provincial and was excommunicated as a result. > > > > Personally I spent almost a decade as a Dominican friar, during which > > > time I took a "vow of poverty." I don't want to go into a discussion > > > on the extent to which Catholic monks actually live according to this > > > vow here, personally, I always found it to be the expression of an > > > attitude of freedom from a dictatorship of "things." It may also have > > > left an indelible mark on me in that in almost a quarter of a century > > > since leaving the order I have been pretty bad at earning, > > > accumulating and retaining material wealth and possessions. During my > > > life I have gone through a number of pretty radical changes, which > > > have often involved leaving nearly everything behind and starting > > > again. Such processes have been, inevitably, traumatic, although not > > > necessarily negative. One of the things that has helped is the fact > > > that I have never felt particularly attached to "things". But maybe my > > > sense of "ownership" is just underdeveloped, or damaged! > > > > There's a German saying which states that "he who has possessions has > > > worries." Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, one of the founders (!) of modern > > > anarchism went farther with his statement that "property is theft." > > > What does it mean to "own" something anyway? > > > > To use Molly's words: What do you think? > > > > Francis- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
