So Pat, the teleology is in fact a tautology? :-)
On Aug 25, 9:21 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 25 Aug, 16:10, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > “…Nothing we do is done 'by choice'. We are compelled by our nature
> > and will act according to how our nature overlaps with the given set
> > of stimuli….” – Pat
>
> > So Pat, help me out here…how does this form of teleology fit into the
> > workings of a multi-dimensional space? …..in 3 sentences or
> > less!!! ;-)
>
> Causes cause effects. Effects are, in turn, causes of other effects.
> Where is there room for choices, when only one event can ever take
> place at any one time/place and all times/places already exist in the
> whole of space-time?
>
> > Oh, well, if you must……go ahead…..
>
> Actually, 3 sentences was enough. ;-)
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 6:44 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 25 Aug, 13:38, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Rather, what a person perceives as defining their character leads them
> > > > > to certain acts. If you accept the sexuality argument, the same logic
> > > > > applies to any other part of one's nature.
>
> > > > I'm not sure that logicly follows Pat. Ones sexuality is not a choice
> > > > as far as I can see, but to commit violence or not even if it is in
> > > > ones nature to do so, well we can still choose to perform that action
> > > > or not. Or put another way.
>
> > > Whilst I understand what you mean, I can't agree. That is, it is,
> > > given MY nature, impossible for me to agree. Nothing we do is done
> > > 'by choice'. We are compelled by our nature and will act according to
> > > how our nature overlaps with the given set of stimuli. I strongly
> > > suggest that, given exactly the same stimulus, Clyde Barrow and I
> > > would react vastly differently.
>
> > > > I can if I so choose commit buggery with another bloke, that is the
> > > > choice I have made, it does not change my sexual orinatation, heh
> > > > unless of course I re-commit such an act over and over and over
> > > > again. Then I guess you would declare that my true sexual orientation
> > > > merely took some time to surface.
>
> > > Not necessarily. There could be a gun to your head each time and
> > > you are buggering, as it were, for your life and it has nothing to do
> > > with one's sexuality.
>
> > > > Yet if I percived that I am heterosexual, you say that I would never
> > > > commit bugger with another man?
>
> > > Unless there's a gun to your head or some other stimulus that
> > > temporarily overrides your sexuality nature by the drive to survive
> > > (or protect loved ones, etc.). We don't read the lines until they've
> > > been drawn.
>
> > > > > If you bullied your siblings, then there must have been a cause for
> > > > > that. And THAT cause was what made you a bully. You demonstrated that
> > > > > you had discovered the bully within by, then, bullying your siblings.
> > > > > There MUST have been a mental 'adjustment' prior to your first act of
> > > > > bullying.
>
> > > > But you suggested early that the reason for the bullying to stop was
> > > > because essentialy it was not part of my nature. However above we
> > > > have ones perception of themselves leads to performing certian acts.
> > > > Therefore how do we tell what is a fales percpetion and what a part of
> > > > true nature of the individual? On the surface Pat I see no real
> > > > differance and virtualy no way to tell them apart.
>
> > > Thus the importance of reflection. What I suggested as the reason for
> > > your stopping bullying, though, was based on a profound lack of
> > > knowledge about you, your siblings and the situations at the time. I
> > > would also suggest that sibling rivalry as encoded into us all played
> > > a much larger role than previously (as it was never) mentioned.
> > > Discovering our true nature is, for each of us, the 'Great Work' or
> > > 'Magnum Opus' of the magician/magus and it's no easy task, for sure.
> > > The vast majority of us humans are mostly unaware of our true nature.
> > > And it takes a great deal of internal work to discover it. But it's
> > > invaluable. Through it, we can suppose what might happen if we acted
> > > in a given way. We can pit those results against our set of
> > > 'preferred/desired outcomes' and formulate the causes for what action
> > > we will take. Imagine how much more difficult it would be to discover
> > > one's true nature if one had no memory of previous actions. Then note
> > > that there are some people who lose memory and are in just that kind
> > > of situation. One thing's for sure, though, no one ELSE is required
> > > when determining one's own true nature, as it represents our
> > > relationship to God/the One and not our more tenuous relationships
> > > with 'others'.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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