On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote: > > Don I said eariler on that I do not think compassion should have > caveats, I stand by this.
But it does and it should. Everyone doesn't deserve compassion. No offense but here in the South we call your philosophy "Bleeding Heart Syndrome." > Sticking to ones morality does not mean a total derailmeant of love > now, or do you belive it does? How about yourself? I don't know if you have > children but if you have > can you imagine a time or a reason that would simply cause you to stop > loving them? I know my son pretty well. The emotional connection is strong and I think I would still love him no matter what he did. I will always have compassion for him because I love him. This is why the judicial system allows judges and jurists to recuse themselves and in some cases are by force. Spreading familial compassion to strangers seems very odd to me. I suggest you seek counseling. ;-) I didn't steal money out of Dad's wallet; it was my mothers. Like she wouldn't notice a missing 20. I got the liars and thieves speech and was severely guilt tripped and grounded and had to pay it back. The worst thing was noticing the genuine shame and disappointment coming from Dad. It was a turning point in my life. One of the very few memories I have before I was 8. dj > On 25 Aug, 10:52, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> Lee, I don't see how you can equate the run of the mill convict family >> with the family of a mass murderer. The Una Bomber's own brother >> turned him in. Some crimes are so heinous family members turn in >> their own. We aren't talking petty theft or robbery or burglary here >> we're talking deliberate butchery for either the pleasure of killing >> or the advancement of some political/religious goal. Soldiers weren't >> killed. Women and children were killed. In fact, this was the intent >> to foment terror. In U.S. law, we look at intent. I can see showing >> compassion to a man that took some cold meds, unsuspectingly drank >> spiked punch at his wife's retirement party and then while rushing >> home to a desperate plea from his elderly mother for help he runs over >> and kills a pedestrian. He's still guilty as hell but I wouldn't >> stick him with a harsh sentence. Even if it was my loved one that was >> killed. >> >> By your logic we should show compassion to a pair of murderers because >> they are, lets say, orphans. Never mind they are orphans because they >> murdered their parents for the inheritance. It would be hypocritical >> of me to concern myself with HOW they became orphans, yes? The poor >> dears deserve our sympathy. >> >> dj >> >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:43 AM, >> >> >> >> [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > I'm sorry Slip, but you failed to address any of my questions what-so- >> > ever there. You brushed aside my enqiury into what I see as your own >> > hypocrasy and declared the two opposing statements you made as >> > unconnected. >> >> > Let us remind ourselves then of the way it has thus far run and well >> > see if I can't squeeze an answer out of you. >> >> > I asked initialy: >> >> > 'why should his family be punished for his deeds?' >> >> > Your reply to that question was: >> >> > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that >> > would lead to the punishment' >> >> > So you are saying here in essance that he brought such punishment upon >> > his own family, I note that also is not an answer to the question, >> > more of a dodge really. So you fail to let me know your thoughts on >> > the family and instead concentrate on the man himself. A conclusion >> > then that can be reached by your lack of response is that you just >> > don't care about the punishment of his family. >> >> > So when you state: >> >> > ''People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the >> > consequences of their actions; when I >> > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' >> >> > Then again a conclusion that can be reached is that you sir are >> > engaging in a philosopher of live that you are not willing to extend >> > to others, no such golden rule then? >> >> > Slip, please proove me wrong, instead of dismising my questions answer >> > them. >> >> > You are correct though Slip, I can see that I have obviously projected >> > my own feelings upon the family, but I do so from experiance. The >> > majority of those families with sons or daughters or mothers and >> > fathers in prison do not suddenly unlove them, they do go and visit, >> > they are happy on the day of their release, they cry in court when >> > they are sentanced, family ties are strong yes? I do not think that >> > such supposition is unreasonable do you? >> >> > On 24 Aug, 18:03, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you >> >> can declare: >> >> 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that >> >> would lead to the punishment' >> >> And then later state: >> >> 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the >> >> consequences of their actions; when I >> >> have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' >> >> >> This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for >> >> the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you >> >> have a problem. >> >> >> Does that read right Slip? >> >> >> No it does not read right Lee, that is your interpretive stretch. The >> >> comments are unrelated in the sense one applies to a personal >> >> situation which you presented concerning a member of my family. How >> >> the other family feels is entirely up to them and truthfully you are >> >> imposing a premise that all families are suffering. We cannot >> >> conclude that all families of murderers are suffering over the >> >> incarceration of one of their members. >> >> IF you want to go there we can talk about the teenage Muslim girl >> >> being forced to go back to Ohio where she is afraid her own "Father" >> >> wants to kill her because she converted to Christianity. You see she >> >> has brought shame upon the family and they hate her. Honor killings >> >> are real, Lee. >> >> >> NOW!! Imagine that the girl went out on a killing spree and she was >> >> dying in prison! >> >> >>http://www.examiner.com/x-17009-Freethought-Examiner~y2009m8d11-Runaw... >> >> >> So Lee, you are imposing the dictates your conscience as a means to >> >> judgment based on preconceived notions. >> >> >> For all I care Lee, you could fly to Libya tomorrow and give the whole >> >> family a big juicy kiss. Don't worry about the victims families Lee, >> >> they'll understand that you are compassionate towards the murderer and >> >> his family. Maybe you could partake in a hospice style visit to see >> >> him out in his last days. >> >> >> On Aug 24, 11:12 am, "[email protected]" >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Heh Slip, I really don't know how you can claim such a thing when I >> >> > have expressly denied it, unless you mean to call me a liar sir? >> >> >> > I'll reiterate it though. It is a logical disicion to try to not lead >> >> > the life of a hypocrit and has nothing to do with my faith. Ian I >> >> > feel (and please tell me if I am wrong Ian) also does not want to live >> >> > a life hypocritical of his well reasoned 'philosophies' it need not >> >> > have anything to do with religoin nor spirtuality and I assure you >> >> > Slip with me it does not. >> >> >> > Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you >> >> > can declare: >> >> >> > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that >> >> > would lead to the punishment' >> >> >> > And then later state: >> >> >> > 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the >> >> > consequences of their actions; when I >> >> > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' >> >> >> > This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for >> >> > the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you >> >> > have a problem. >> >> >> > Does that read right Slip? >> >> >> > Does that seem fair? It looks very much like one rule for 'me' and >> >> > another for 'not me', I think you can see the inherent selfishness >> >> > there? Or perhaps it is merely a lack of empathy towards the plight >> >> > of your fellow man? >> >> >> > Help me understand why this seems to be the case mate, or let me know >> >> > exactly where I have read you wrong? >> >> >> > Okay no sister, what about a father a mother or a child. Would you >> >> > disown your child? Remember here my main point is one of compassion, >> >> > if your child performed an act of murder could you never feel >> >> > compassion enough to have them home to die with you? >> >> >> > That sounds harsh man. >> >> >> > I know if it was my son, yes I'd despair that he could peform such an >> >> > act, but he will always be my son, I could never just switch off the >> >> > love and I would hope that those in charge of his detention would show >> >> > me and his mother compassion enough to let him come home to die. >> >> >> > On 24 Aug, 16:53, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took >> >> > > > ahold >> >> > > > in my life. >> >> >> > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the >> >> > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.<<Lee >> >> >> > > Really though, right there you are saying your conclusion is based on >> >> > > the "commitment" of not living hypocritical, commitment to your >> >> > > beliefs, your religion. >> >> >> > > If my sister (though I don't have one) went on a killing spree in a >> >> > > foreign country I wouldn't have anything to do with her, fact is she >> >> > > might decide to kill me for some reason if I took her in, she might >> >> > > want to take me and my family with her. She's a murderer, why do I >> >> > > want her? She could rot in jail for all I care, I didn't tell her to >> >> > > kill people. I'm sure you know the story about the scorpion and the >> >> > > frog. >> >> >> > > I've lived by a very simply rule: People can do whatever they want in >> >> > > life as long as they suffer the consequences of their actions; when I >> >> > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem. I >> >> > > give my advice and then you do what you want, just don't come back to >> >> > > me with your woe. >> >> >> > > It's a simple clear cut no nonsense way of living that works really >> >> > > well for me. >> >> >> > > On Aug 24, 9:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> >> > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > You would be wrong I'm afraid Slip. >> >> >> > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took >> >> > > > ahold >> >> > > > in my life. >> >> >> > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the >> >> > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life. >> >> >> > > > Compassion should not have cavets attached, or do you think >> >> > > > otherwise? What about the differance between this chap and Ronnie >> >> > > > Biggs, is it merely the level of the crime? >> >> >> > > > Your thoughts about the family of criminals are not logicaly sound, >> >> > > > I >> >> > > > think perhaps your stance stems from an emotional place instead? You >> >> > > > are correct I would not like to see any punishment for the familes >> >> > > > of >> >> > > > those who have commited crime. >> >> ... >> >> read more »- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
