I'm sorry Slip, but you failed to address any of my questions what-so- ever there. You brushed aside my enqiury into what I see as your own hypocrasy and declared the two opposing statements you made as unconnected.
Let us remind ourselves then of the way it has thus far run and well see if I can't squeeze an answer out of you. I asked initialy: 'why should his family be punished for his deeds?' Your reply to that question was: 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that would lead to the punishment' So you are saying here in essance that he brought such punishment upon his own family, I note that also is not an answer to the question, more of a dodge really. So you fail to let me know your thoughts on the family and instead concentrate on the man himself. A conclusion then that can be reached by your lack of response is that you just don't care about the punishment of his family. So when you state: ''People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the consequences of their actions; when I have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' Then again a conclusion that can be reached is that you sir are engaging in a philosopher of live that you are not willing to extend to others, no such golden rule then? Slip, please proove me wrong, instead of dismising my questions answer them. You are correct though Slip, I can see that I have obviously projected my own feelings upon the family, but I do so from experiance. The majority of those families with sons or daughters or mothers and fathers in prison do not suddenly unlove them, they do go and visit, they are happy on the day of their release, they cry in court when they are sentanced, family ties are strong yes? I do not think that such supposition is unreasonable do you? On 24 Aug, 18:03, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you > can declare: > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that > would lead to the punishment' > And then later state: > 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the > consequences of their actions; when I > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' > > This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for > the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you > have a problem. > > Does that read right Slip? > > No it does not read right Lee, that is your interpretive stretch. The > comments are unrelated in the sense one applies to a personal > situation which you presented concerning a member of my family. How > the other family feels is entirely up to them and truthfully you are > imposing a premise that all families are suffering. We cannot > conclude that all families of murderers are suffering over the > incarceration of one of their members. > IF you want to go there we can talk about the teenage Muslim girl > being forced to go back to Ohio where she is afraid her own "Father" > wants to kill her because she converted to Christianity. You see she > has brought shame upon the family and they hate her. Honor killings > are real, Lee. > > NOW!! Imagine that the girl went out on a killing spree and she was > dying in prison! > > http://www.examiner.com/x-17009-Freethought-Examiner~y2009m8d11-Runaw... > > So Lee, you are imposing the dictates your conscience as a means to > judgment based on preconceived notions. > > For all I care Lee, you could fly to Libya tomorrow and give the whole > family a big juicy kiss. Don't worry about the victims families Lee, > they'll understand that you are compassionate towards the murderer and > his family. Maybe you could partake in a hospice style visit to see > him out in his last days. > > On Aug 24, 11:12 am, "[email protected]" > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Heh Slip, I really don't know how you can claim such a thing when I > > have expressly denied it, unless you mean to call me a liar sir? > > > I'll reiterate it though. It is a logical disicion to try to not lead > > the life of a hypocrit and has nothing to do with my faith. Ian I > > feel (and please tell me if I am wrong Ian) also does not want to live > > a life hypocritical of his well reasoned 'philosophies' it need not > > have anything to do with religoin nor spirtuality and I assure you > > Slip with me it does not. > > > Talking of hypocrasy, do you not find it strange that in one post you > > can declare: > > > 'If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that > > would lead to the punishment' > > > And then later state: > > > 'People can do whatever they want in life as long as they suffer the > > consequences of their actions; when I > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem.' > > > This seems to say that if you don't mind if other people suffer for > > the mistakes of their family, but if that was to apply to you then you > > have a problem. > > > Does that read right Slip? > > > Does that seem fair? It looks very much like one rule for 'me' and > > another for 'not me', I think you can see the inherent selfishness > > there? Or perhaps it is merely a lack of empathy towards the plight > > of your fellow man? > > > Help me understand why this seems to be the case mate, or let me know > > exactly where I have read you wrong? > > > Okay no sister, what about a father a mother or a child. Would you > > disown your child? Remember here my main point is one of compassion, > > if your child performed an act of murder could you never feel > > compassion enough to have them home to die with you? > > > That sounds harsh man. > > > I know if it was my son, yes I'd despair that he could peform such an > > act, but he will always be my son, I could never just switch off the > > love and I would hope that those in charge of his detention would show > > me and his mother compassion enough to let him come home to die. > > > On 24 Aug, 16:53, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took ahold > > > > in my life. > > > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the > > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life.<<Lee > > > > Really though, right there you are saying your conclusion is based on > > > the "commitment" of not living hypocritical, commitment to your > > > beliefs, your religion. > > > > If my sister (though I don't have one) went on a killing spree in a > > > foreign country I wouldn't have anything to do with her, fact is she > > > might decide to kill me for some reason if I took her in, she might > > > want to take me and my family with her. She's a murderer, why do I > > > want her? She could rot in jail for all I care, I didn't tell her to > > > kill people. I'm sure you know the story about the scorpion and the > > > frog. > > > > I've lived by a very simply rule: People can do whatever they want in > > > life as long as they suffer the consequences of their actions; when I > > > have to suffer the consequences of their actions I have a problem. I > > > give my advice and then you do what you want, just don't come back to > > > me with your woe. > > > > It's a simple clear cut no nonsense way of living that works really > > > well for me. > > > > On Aug 24, 9:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > You would be wrong I'm afraid Slip. > > > > > I have always been like this, before even spirtual matters took ahold > > > > in my life. > > > > > It is though a logical conclusion, and one bassed around the > > > > commitment to not living the hypocritical life. > > > > > Compassion should not have cavets attached, or do you think > > > > otherwise? What about the differance between this chap and Ronnie > > > > Biggs, is it merely the level of the crime? > > > > > Your thoughts about the family of criminals are not logicaly sound, I > > > > think perhaps your stance stems from an emotional place instead? You > > > > are correct I would not like to see any punishment for the familes of > > > > those who have commited crime. > > > > > We all apply rules to our own lives, and one of mine is and always has > > > > been trying to see things from the other perspective. What Slip if > > > > your sister was imprisioned in a foriegn country for a killing spree, > > > > and she had developed cancer but was refused compasinate leave to come > > > > home and die, would you not be upset, would you be shouting at the > > > > callousness of those that refused your compassionate reasoning? > > > > > If you would answer that indeed you would be upset, that you would > > > > find it unfair and callouse and not compassionate then, to apply this > > > > to yourself only and no other is hypocritical yes? > > > > > What is the logic for such a stance? > > > > > Lets also talk a little about the role of punishment and blame. If I > > > > killed a man and died in prison, your stance says that I have brought > > > > that upon my family, that I am to blame. > > > > > What then of determinism, can I not lay that blame on my culture, my > > > > upbringing, society, the eon I find myself born into, my genetic > > > > stock? > > > > > Ultimatly and logical we should all be Rastaferians, and call for > > > > repatriation back to the mother land, yes sir all hail Marcus Garvey! > > > > > Heh and yes I am of course anti death penalty. Again, to kill somebody > > > > for the crime of killing, makes no logical sense to me. > > > > > On 24 Aug, 15:13, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I have a feeling that your "religious" beliefs are supporting your > > > > > position on compassion. Do you own a anti-death penalty placard? > > > > > > If his family is punished it is because he created the cycle that > > > > > would lead to the punishment. I suppose you think we, here in the US, > > > > > should let Charles Manson go home if he becomes terminally ill with > > > > > cancer, after all you don't want to punish his family, do you? > > > > > > Or how about Gary Ridgway, Lee? The green river killer who claimed to > > > > > have raped, tortured and killed over 90 young women and teenage > > > > > girls. You wouldn't want Mr. Ridgway's family to be punished, now > > > > > would you? You think we should send him home to die in the comforting > > > > > arm of his family. > > > > > > You sense of compassion is maligned, in my view of course. > > > > > > On Aug 24, 6:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I really don't know about this man's innocence or his guilt, it is > > > > > > irrelevant to 'compassion' > > > > > > > My dad while I was in my teens got pretty badly stabbed up, he died > > > > > > and was resusercated, his attaker got a two year suspended sentance, > > > > > > suspended for two years. He never done any jail time, but evn if my > > > > > > father had died, and this man had spent no matter how many years > > > > > > inside, I would still have no qualms about his realease on > > > > > > 'Compassionate' grounds. > > > > > > > After all as I have asked, why should his family be punished for his > > > > > > deeds? > > > > > > > As the familes of the bombing yes of course I feel for them, but you > > > > > > said yourself 'some form of closer'. The bloke has been inside, he > > > > > > has > > > > > > served time for the crime, now he is dieing, why should he not be > > > > > > able > > > > > > to die at home, why should his wife and kids not be aforded that? > > > > > > > What in essance you are saying here, is that this man nor his family > > > > > > should be shown no comppasion. > > > > > > > I also cannot understand that sort of mindset. To me it shows the > > > > > > same lack of respect for life that this man has been punished for. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
