On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:56 AM, Justintruth<[email protected]> wrote: > > I see a >> common tactic on the left is to ridicule rather then engage. > > On the left! Where do you think this all got started? It was Rush > Limbaugh and Fox News that invented the process! Have your heard the > sneering tone in his voice! Do you forget Chenny saying he wasn't part > of the executive branch? Have you seen any of Joe Kennedy's work? Did > you see the hatchet job that was attempted on the scientists who > warned about global warming?
> You need to pluck that log out of your own eye before you criticize > the left for "ridiculing" the right. (Although, it is true perhaps > that the left is operating in a "target rich" environment since so > much on the right is just well... ridiculous....ridiculous, outrageous > and I wish only funny!) For a long time the left did not respond in > kind. But the fact is that kind of approach swayed a large part of the > population and elected Republicans with disastrous consequences - a > lot of dead people and even worse down the road unless something was > done - so something had to be done. The result: Air America, SNL, > CNBC, and a host of "copy cats". And it worked. Do you think Obama > could have been elected if it weren't for the ridiculing of Sara Palin > on SNL? Can't take a dose of your own medicine is what it is. Granted Rush does quite a bit of sneering. I never noticed it at Fox News but I'm sure it has taken place at some time or the other. I don't remember Cheney saying that but I wonder why he had to. Perhaps the general public wouldn't know he wasn't part of the executive branch but one would expect one's law makers, judges and certainly the press to be aware of it. It's their job. No, I haven't seen any of Joe Kennedy's work but I assume it's very partisan and belittling towards the left. I get your point. SNL was funny. The Sarah Palin mocking was great. Comedy Central's spoofs are still pretty funny. These are entertainers just like Rush is. I imagine folks from all political spectrums tune in for the fun of it. Glenn Beck too. It might have been a close race without the economic crash. I still think Obama would have won but mostly because McCain is hardly an inspiring leader. Obama has it all over him in the charisma department. I have no wish to have anyone tone down anything. Bring it on. My point, which I didn't explain very well, is that ridicule doesn't seem to be working as a political strategy. Most recently(yesterday or today I think) Obama gave a talk to some Labor Union and sneered that Repubs don't have a reform plan. Not only is this untrue he looks weak and defensive crying about it. The House has been ignoring the conservative plans; I think there are four of them. If Obama truly isn't aware of this it's because his people aren't telling him. Bush had an unpopular war, Obama has an unpopular health care bill. (this is your opportunity to point out that he actually doesn't have one) That's why his popularity is falling; not because of anything conservatives have made up. > > Sure it would be better to stand down. But hey. You first. Let Rushbo > get a hint of rationality, or Fox news stop lying about their coverage > being unbiased and the left will shut down. Suuuuuure they will. heh > > I agree that there should be no government interference in the press > provided there is no monopoly. I think we can even work to assure that > there is none. It used to be only a few channels and there were all > kinds of rules on who could access them because the frequency spectrum > was limited. Packet switching and the internet should get that fixed. > So I hope you will agree that the electronic freedom foundation is the > way to go and we must keep the internet free - free in the US and free > in the world! Helping countries censor the internet - now I would love > to criminalize that. That is a legitemate "government" intervention. > It is what we need. We are in full agreement here. I hate censorship. > > I would really not like to end up like >> Russia or Cuba or Venezuela with a state controlled media. > > Nor one controlled by a small group of business executives. We need to > keep control fractured at all times, guarantee privacy for ordinary > citizens and force the elite out into the open. It is the only way. > They cannot remain in power if there actions are in the light of day. I'm a fan of muckraking journalism. > > Why do you only focus on government hierarchy? Why do you not see the > problem with organizations like Blackwater? Did you stand up for the > Clinton's when they were being smeared? Where is the fairness? I used > to be politically uninterested but the action of the conservative > movement in the US, its danger, is something I feel must be responded > to. I didn't like people trashing Chelsea. I thought that was crass and low. I don't remember it happening much and not at all in the MSM. Nothing like the dog-pile on the Palin kids. Slick Willy put his wife in a powerful position. This opened her up to criticism like no other previous First Lady was exposed to. I agree the massive coverage of the sordid affair was over done but it's what the people like. It's entertainment in a sick and twisted way. I don't really blame him so much for the affair but for brazenly lying about it to the world. That's chutzpa right there. He deserved impeachment for the lying under oath but I'm glad he wasn't removed from office. Except for that he was a pretty good president. Never like Hillary that much tho... She would have gained my respect and possible admiration if she had dumped that cheating bastard. > > You know, if you want, as the right has recently done, to make Hitler > analogies, here's one: Everyone thought Hitler was a fool and no one > took him very seriously until it was too late. Do you know how > dangerous it is to have a nuclear arsensal in the hands of people of > who don't believe in evolution? Not all conservatives don't believe in evolution. Most of the 'God fearing' people I know don't seem to have a problem with it. It's a few politicians fishing for the fundamentalist vote that make it such a big deal. I don't really see it as a problem, why do you? Just because someone thinks God created us out of nothing why would that make it more likely for them to nuke somebody? Smaller government and a freer market are my main goals. > > I am really tired of conservatives telling the left to be fair. > > One day I was fishing with my brother. I had a better pole than him. > He said that my pole was his and he wanted it. I was pissed but, hey, > he was my brother so I said, ok, here its yours. Next cast he gets the > line caught in a tree. Next word out of his mouth is "Hey that's my > pole give it back". During the height of the Bush regime I asked him > if he wasn't concerned over the deaths that were occurring. I showed > him that the number of people being killed was extreme. His comment > "Our fighters are better than theirs" He was proud of the kill ratio > and he could not distinguish between collateral damage and damage on > an enemy combatant. Its no wonder we had the shame of Abu Grab. We all > should be ashamed of the conservative movement. Its a disaster. Did occur to you that he's baiting you? Pushing your buttons? It's what little brothers do(I'm assuming you're older). I know, 'cause I am one. > > So, I am not going to "play fair". I am going to be as partisan as I > can and do as much as I can to defeat the conservative movement in > America. They are a threat the security of sane society and should be > defeated through legititemate democratic means before they get to > where those means are no longer enough. > > You are tired of the unfairness? You should see how tired we are of > it. But whatever it takes. As George Bush once said "Bring it on" > You'll not destroy civil society unopposed. Dang, you stole my thunder. Replace 'conservative movement' with 'socialist movement' and right back at ya! > >> It is right to question your government. > > And its right to try to use government to check business hierarchy. > > We have the luxury of getting our information from >> multiple sources. Let's all hope this continues. >> We need some regulation to curb monopolies and force some semblance of >> ethics on investing and business tactics. We agree on this much. > > Amen to that! > >> What we apparently disagree on is the major cause for the crash. I >> was paying attention. The FEC failed in it's watch-dog role letting >> derivatives get ridiculous. I feel it was government involvement and >> in particular the GSE's in the mortgage industry that caused what >> should have been a cyclical bear to be a financial meltdown of cosmic >> proportions the like of which we still have not seen the full effects. > > That does not explain the loss of the manufacturing sector or the > problems in health care. The financial crisis is just one aspect of > the problem. Obama got it right. It is ultimately a collapse in > ethics. I personally think it started with Regan and the idea that we > could just bully people. The idea that you could just let your ego do > the heavy lifting and remember "God is on our side" all while paying > lip service to the "compassionate" side of things. Like all great lies > it had the germ of truth as Russia was, and is, well, ethically > challenged might be a kind word. But once you take that arrogant > attitude, (contrast it with the relatively humble attitude of Carter) > and it is nothing more than that, and you destroy the idea of our > common good in favor of a complete and unbalanced "Me first" approach > and poo poo the resulting guilt you feel, flaunt yourself in fact and > lay claim to your mantle of "goodness" then it starts. That attitude > has resulted in the inflaming of conservatism and fundamentalism. It > is at the heart of fundamentalist belief. I can decide what I believe. > I set the truth. And while many subcommunities in the US are immune > from such stupidity there is a large part of the population in the > south and mid-west genuinely swayed by it. They really believe the > Conservative lies. Remember Oaklahoma city? No one remembers it. The loss of the manufacturing sector is easily explained. It's called cheap labor. We don't have it and other countries do. Simple. Throw in unreasonable 'green' laws and it makes it even harder to compete. The fix is less simple if we want to remain competitive with world commerce. I believe we both agree this is desirable. I would like some time to explore alternative ways to help those in need rather then have the government be responsible for doing it. With the internet and advocacy groups as prevalent as they are why not take the appeal for charity straight to the people? Why go through government politicians and bureaucrats? Give us tax breaks to give to the charities of our choice. This sounds more democratic to me then confiscation and the subsequent fraud that is part and parcel to the doling out process. > > So, please, don't ask us to stand down first. You guys back off ok? No, you first. Then me. I promise. Hope to die stick a needle in my eye. > > You want to defend freedom of the press and a rational media fine, but > start by attacking Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and the whole myth of > Ronald Regan or maybe defend scientifically, evolution or something. > Become a liberal. They are the ones trying to defend freedom. Defending freedom by enacting more laws and saddling us with even more debt. Hm, I'm missing the connection Justin. But I'm willing to listen. > > >> Are you actually telling me we should relax and trust Obama and co. >> and let the 'smart people' take care of us? > > No, I am just asking you to see that he is basically right with where > we are headed. If you want to pull him left then I support that. But > if you are part of this orchestrated smear campaign go pound sand. I have no interest in smearing anyone. I want transparency. Tomorrow Obama has the opportunity to come clean with what HE wants for health care reform and how he thinks he can make it work without burying us in more debt. Let's hope he doesn't waste it. I'll read his speech with an open mind, I can do that much. > > Obama knows best, sit >> down and shut up. Their 'whiff of brilliance' will save us. Nah, I >> know that's not what your saying. >> >> I'd rather take the red pill. > > What you need to do is to see that your fear of government is correct > but it is being exploited by another more corporate power base that > you also need to fear. You need to fear nationalism as much as you > fear internationalism. You need to fear letting the sick go without > treatment as much as you need to fear the fact that a lazy capable man > might not work. You need to fear that government not have the funds to > function as much as you fear increased taxes. You just need balance. > The truth is the divide between liberals and conservatives right now > is a divide between balance and no balance. There is no balance. It is > out of balance. We need to move sharply left. Very left. I can't > believe how close the last election was. I can't believe how blind > conservatives are. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
