On 8 Sep, 15:54, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8 Sep, 13:23, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-ideas/introducing-objectivism.html
> > Here is a pretty good site that lays out Rand's philosophy very
> > simply. Her objectivism is more along the lines of Plato's pure
> > reason, her morality more along the lines of Pat's new morality, in
> > that she sees our primary duty to self esteem and self knowledge as
> > ultimately leading to an esteem for other, but true regard for other
> > is meaningless without regard for self first. She makes it pretty
> > clear that to her, altruism does not mean self sacrifice for the sake
> > of others. I find this position much more integrated and insightful
> > than the general connotation of the word altruism.
>
> Funny thing, though, altruism, in a monistic system, is the height
> of selfishness. But, of course, that's EVERY reason to perform
> altruistic acts because it's how we treat others that is how we treat
> ourselves. I wrote a sonnet regarding this topic a while back. I'll
> grab a copy tonight and bring it in tomorrow. I do remember, though,
> the couplet at the end:
>
> When one scans a face and sees Sorrow's brow,
> Then one remembers that ere morrow's now.
>
Sorry for the delay; it took me a while to find the CD on which I
had this. Anyway, here it is:
O’er the years, time has come to teach me this:
That when asked to aid and you find you can,
To do so is a soul’s fortress and cuisse—
The refuge of beneficence to’ard Man.
It may be true that the most selfish thing
Is an act, out of altruism, borne;
But value it as a sacred well-spring,
For from it flows the balm that soothes the thorn.
The gift of hope when all seems lost complete
Is a precious gem whose former holder
Can be proud to confer an entire suite,
To let his neighbour lean on his shoulder.
When one scans a face and sees Sorrow’s brow,
Then one remembers that ere morrow’s now.
>
>
> > On Sep 7, 10:45 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Altruism shouldn't be able to survive, given the altruists presumably
> > > perish first!
> > > For sure it's so, Arch, as the old adage comes to mind "nice guys
> > > finish last".
> > > It's a bit cold and stark but at least she clearly defines her lines
> > > and doesn't waiver. Perhaps if we got off the dung cart we could
> > > settle into peace built on pure reason. One love's thy neighbor until
> > > one needs to kill thy neighbor to survive, why fool ourselves into
> > > thinking otherwise. Surely we don't hack away with medieval
> > > swordsmanship but undermine and destroy with economic woe.
>
> > > On Sep 7, 7:52 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I don't really believe this 'stuff' Orn, but it is a way to make
> > > > points I do believe. The spiritual (no doubt a false form) is often
> > > > used to reach a coldness needed to kill based on indoctrination and a
> > > > certainty in passion and conviction. I do not place this in the
> > > > intellect, but can easily see how people being 'clever' can appear
> > > > cold and very selfish. Religious and bureaucratic rationalisations
> > > > often chill me to the bone and more and more of this seems to take the
> > > > form of economic discourse and those pretending an objective voice as
> > > > a tool of rhetoric - deconstruction always shows the return of Desire
> > > > in such rhetoric, that the rationality or objectivism is always less
> > > > than pretended. Rand isn't without some sense on some things, but she
> > > > could only ever be a strawman version of objectivism suitable to be
> > > > shot down in flames. I'm reminded of the 'greed is good' neo-con
> > > > arguments and some watered-down Nietzsche. First time I've seen the
> > > > woman, though we have 'Atlas Shrugged' in the house, partly read.
>
> > > > I've never really believed we can get into pure intellect or even
> > > > argument where the only operative force is that of pure Reason.
> > > > Altruism shouldn't be able to survive, given the altruists presumably
> > > > perish first! It runs in evolution as celibacy runs in some Catholic
> > > > families! My guess is this form of 'objectivism' is really political
> > > > and makes the intellectual a merely functionary purpose to its
> > > > interests. What joy there might be to live, write and breathe other
> > > > than as a functionary? I hope I share your spirit in this Orn - even
> > > > if we might appear to be at cross-purposes. We share a certain 'will'
> > > > as we are both Williams! We can at least go Dutch on the bill.
>
> > > > On 7 Sep, 19:54, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > ““The lower, and purely intellectual, is nearest to the principle of
> > > > > Desire, and is thus distinguished from its other side which has
> > > > > affinity for the spiritual principles above. If the Thinker becomes
> > > > > wholly intellectual, the entire nature begins to tend downward—for
> > > > > intellect alone is cold, heartless, selfish.” – W. Q. Judge: “The
> > > > > Ocean of Theosophy”
>
> > > > > We were discussing things like love and compassion along with
> > > > > consciousness in another thread. Here is a view from one extreme point
> > > > > on the spectrum…that of Ayn Rand. Since she has been mentioned now and
> > > > > then here, for those of you who have little exposure to her, her books
> > > > > and/or philosophy, here is a short video interview that may provide a
> > > > > fairly rapid and direct access to what is called objectivism.
>
> > > > > While the video is on a Theosophy site, read the other stuff only if
> > > > > you are attracted, if not, that is fine too…scroll down to the 4th
> > > > > picture and click on it for the video to start.
>
> > > > > “Objectivism vs Altruism”
>
> > > > >http://theosophywatch.com/2009/09/07/the-caring-spirit/-Hide quoted
> > > > >text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
