Okay well lets halt it there and 'll ask again what are some of these objective facts that Rand wants us to be concerned with?
On 17 Sep, 02:25, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > That was very simply put Don, and that's a fact! > > On Sep 16, 2:06 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I understand that some people refuse to accept certain facts. I also > > understand that some people accept as fact what is, in fact, no such > > thing. I don't see how this makes facts subjective. Facts are facts. > > Either something is true or it isn't. Whether or not somebody > > believes it has nothing to do with it. I'm on Slips side of this > > coin. > > > dj > > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > So please, sir, give me a few of these objective facts that Rand wants > > > us to bear in mind, and we'll see just how objective they really are. > > > <<Lee Sep 16, 9:57 am > > > > .........facts can be subjective as well as objective<<Lee Sep 16, > > > 10:17 am > > > > On Sep 16, 10:21 am, "[email protected]" > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Umm settles what? > > > >> Ohh and you're welcome! > > > >> On 16 Sep, 16:17, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > I claim only that facts can be subjective as well as objective, that > > >> > indeed both kinds exist. <Lee > > > >> > OK! Well I guess that settles it. Thanks mate! > > > >> > On Sep 16, 9:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > >> > wrote: > > > >> > > Bwahahahah ohh Slip, you slay me mate honestly. > > > >> > > Listen very carefully sir, I'll say it again. > > > >> > > I claim only that facts can be subjective as well as objective, that > > >> > > indeed both kinds exist. > > > >> > > The point? Or why do I make this disctinction? > > > >> > > The point is Rand wants us to deal in objectivity, well when we are > > >> > > clear what is objective and what is subjective then perhaps we can > > >> > > move forward. > > > >> > > So please, sir, give me a few of these objective facts that Rand > > >> > > wants > > >> > > us to bear in mind, and we'll see just how objective they really are. > > > >> > > On 16 Sep, 15:46, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > Obviously, according to your expressions, if fact is disputable, > > >> > > > mutable through human interpretation and perception then there are > > >> > > > no > > >> > > > facts. > > > >> > > > So shall we begin to dispel some well known facts as myths? > > > >> > > > If I stick my hand in "boiling water" it is not a "fact" that my > > >> > > > hand > > >> > > > will get scalded but just a figment of my imagination, the > > >> > > > imagination > > >> > > > that I perceive to "exist". > > > >> > > > The sun that I see in the sky may not really be there but only > > >> > > > exists > > >> > > > as a result of human perceptions of...... "what a sun is as well as > > >> > > > how it appears to arise, cross the heavens and then hide beneath > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > earth, or, the concept of the earth rotating allowing the above > > >> > > > appearances to occur..." > > > >> > > > If we attribute everything to "human thought" then the whole of the > > >> > > > conversation is moot, the interview with Ayn Rand was just a dream. > > >> > > > It is not a fact that anything exists, in "nano thought". > > > >> > > > Note: The above post may not exist for some. > > > >> > > > BUT WAIT!! THERE'S MORE!! > > > >> > > > From the Eternity thread an excerpt from the much revered > > >> > > > Justintruth.......................quotes added to "Fact" for your > > >> > > > convenience. > > > >> > > > Justintruth > > >> > > > View profile > > >> > > > Here is what I have been able to get from reading: Consider the > > >> > > > "fact" > > >> > > > that 1+1=2. Given the normal meaning of "1" and "+ "add "2" this > > >> > > > fact > > >> > > > is true. But this "fact" never happened. It is an eternal truth. > > >> > > > Eternality is the place of meaning - where meaning is. The previous > > >> > > > sentence being more correct when one understands that "place" and > > >> > > > "where" are not to be interpreted spatially. Eternality is the > > >> > > > "fact" > > >> > > > of the being of meaning or a reference to meaning being. Consider > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > "fact" that George Washington crossed the Delaware at Valley Forge. > > >> > > > Now unlike the math that did happen in time but the "fact" that it > > >> > > > happened is no longer temporal. The past is no longer happening. > > >> > > > The > > >> > > > past is now eternal and nothing can therefore change > > >> > > > it. ..................... > > > >> > > > From Pat....Consciousness thread... > > > >> > > > As I said, the "fact" that we exist in a continuum implies that > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > system is teleological. Thus the need for our 'whys' to be > > >> > > > answered. > > >> > > > I fear, though, that most of the answers will elude us while we're > > >> > > > incarnate. > > > >> > > > Yes, you too Orn........ > > > >> > > > Yes too to the "fact" that one must adapt > > >> > > > to an environment…knowing who they are with. > > > >> > > > But Wait! We also have unfortunate facts........ > > > >> > > > Fran.........The ends justify the means thread......... > > > >> > > > The > > >> > > > unfortunate "fact" is that, despite the question of legitimacy > > >> > > > regarding > > >> > > > Bush's first term > > > >> > > > Care to rephrase anyone? OK so are we just tossing about the word > > >> > > > "fact", should we remove it from our language being that it may not > > >> > > > even exist? > > > >> > > > Fact is, oops did I say fact?, if we cannot conclude that fact > > >> > > > exists > > >> > > > then we are in a quandary, it's tautological. > > > >> > > > Fact is fact is not fact is fact.- Hide quoted text - > > > >> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
