I understand that some people refuse to accept certain facts. I also understand that some people accept as fact what is, in fact, no such thing. I don't see how this makes facts subjective. Facts are facts. Either something is true or it isn't. Whether or not somebody believes it has nothing to do with it. I'm on Slips side of this coin.
dj On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > So please, sir, give me a few of these objective facts that Rand wants > us to bear in mind, and we'll see just how objective they really are. > <<Lee Sep 16, 9:57 am > > .........facts can be subjective as well as objective<<Lee Sep 16, > 10:17 am > > > > On Sep 16, 10:21 am, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Umm settles what? >> >> Ohh and you're welcome! >> >> On 16 Sep, 16:17, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > I claim only that facts can be subjective as well as objective, that >> > indeed both kinds exist. <Lee >> >> > OK! Well I guess that settles it. Thanks mate! >> >> > On Sep 16, 9:57 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> > > Bwahahahah ohh Slip, you slay me mate honestly. >> >> > > Listen very carefully sir, I'll say it again. >> >> > > I claim only that facts can be subjective as well as objective, that >> > > indeed both kinds exist. >> >> > > The point? Or why do I make this disctinction? >> >> > > The point is Rand wants us to deal in objectivity, well when we are >> > > clear what is objective and what is subjective then perhaps we can >> > > move forward. >> >> > > So please, sir, give me a few of these objective facts that Rand wants >> > > us to bear in mind, and we'll see just how objective they really are. >> >> > > On 16 Sep, 15:46, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > Obviously, according to your expressions, if fact is disputable, >> > > > mutable through human interpretation and perception then there are no >> > > > facts. >> >> > > > So shall we begin to dispel some well known facts as myths? >> >> > > > If I stick my hand in "boiling water" it is not a "fact" that my hand >> > > > will get scalded but just a figment of my imagination, the imagination >> > > > that I perceive to "exist". >> >> > > > The sun that I see in the sky may not really be there but only exists >> > > > as a result of human perceptions of...... "what a sun is as well as >> > > > how it appears to arise, cross the heavens and then hide beneath the >> > > > earth, or, the concept of the earth rotating allowing the above >> > > > appearances to occur..." >> >> > > > If we attribute everything to "human thought" then the whole of the >> > > > conversation is moot, the interview with Ayn Rand was just a dream. >> > > > It is not a fact that anything exists, in "nano thought". >> >> > > > Note: The above post may not exist for some. >> >> > > > BUT WAIT!! THERE'S MORE!! >> >> > > > From the Eternity thread an excerpt from the much revered >> > > > Justintruth.......................quotes added to "Fact" for your >> > > > convenience. >> >> > > > Justintruth >> > > > View profile >> > > > Here is what I have been able to get from reading: Consider the "fact" >> > > > that 1+1=2. Given the normal meaning of "1" and "+ "add "2" this fact >> > > > is true. But this "fact" never happened. It is an eternal truth. >> > > > Eternality is the place of meaning - where meaning is. The previous >> > > > sentence being more correct when one understands that "place" and >> > > > "where" are not to be interpreted spatially. Eternality is the "fact" >> > > > of the being of meaning or a reference to meaning being. Consider the >> > > > "fact" that George Washington crossed the Delaware at Valley Forge. >> > > > Now unlike the math that did happen in time but the "fact" that it >> > > > happened is no longer temporal. The past is no longer happening. The >> > > > past is now eternal and nothing can therefore change >> > > > it. ..................... >> >> > > > From Pat....Consciousness thread... >> >> > > > As I said, the "fact" that we exist in a continuum implies that the >> > > > system is teleological. Thus the need for our 'whys' to be answered. >> > > > I fear, though, that most of the answers will elude us while we're >> > > > incarnate. >> >> > > > Yes, you too Orn........ >> >> > > > Yes too to the "fact" that one must adapt >> > > > to an environment…knowing who they are with. >> >> > > > But Wait! We also have unfortunate facts........ >> >> > > > Fran.........The ends justify the means thread......... >> >> > > > The >> > > > unfortunate "fact" is that, despite the question of legitimacy >> > > > regarding >> > > > Bush's first term >> >> > > > Care to rephrase anyone? OK so are we just tossing about the word >> > > > "fact", should we remove it from our language being that it may not >> > > > even exist? >> >> > > > Fact is, oops did I say fact?, if we cannot conclude that fact exists >> > > > then we are in a quandary, it's tautological. >> >> > > > Fact is fact is not fact is fact.- Hide quoted text - >> >> > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
