In my view peace is free, it is violence we pay for. Allan On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I am not aware of the axiom or the context that might lend its > meaningfulness. But, violence as the seed of peace seems untrue, in my > view. > > On Oct 9, 12:00 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > At the center of Ichazo’s Integralism is found his trialectics the > > second axiom or law of which is that everything is the seed of its > > apparent opposite. How could it be otherwise? > > > > On Oct 8, 11:03 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Oct 8, 9:52 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > it may not be possible to examine peace without also examining > > > > violence, but, I think, as long as we come out of it with our focus > on > > > > peace, we will come out ahead. > > > > > It is the other way around : it is not possible to examine violence > > > without realising peace. Peace is what is truly in our nature. We > > > have only to ( re ) discover it within ourselves. It is the violence > > > that is acquired from without ... as the new born is ' expelled ' from > > > the security of the womb, followed by hunger and thirst, helplessness, > > > soil, insecurity, comparisons, inequities, the whole range of > > > individual - family - social liabilities crying to be discharged, > > > apathetic and negative behaviours suffered in one's environment, etc. > > > > > This acquired violence covers our true nature and hence is required to > > > be ' removed ' to realise the peace pre - existing within us. Having > > > thus realised peace, through abjuring violence completely, with great > > > exercise of courage and sustained self - belief in an environment that > > > actively promotes the opposite ... one can choose to exercise > > > violence to prevent the violent from holding sway. > > > > > The last is exemplified in the life of the tenth Sikh Guru, Gobind > > > Singh, and in that of his father, the ninth Sikh Guru. Not everybody > > > needs to pay such huge costs. But the process is the same ... > > > extremely difficult to fathom and complete. The blessed ones > > > experience the love that sees them through the onerous task. > > > > > Everyone is aware of the general fact : words are cheap. It takes a > > > braveheart to walk the talk. The bravery is special, but more because > > > the walk is so impossible and rare. > > > > > > On Oct 8, 12:35 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > There does appear to be a connection of what one embodies/manifests > > > > > and ones interaction in the world. On the other hand, the meek do > not > > > > > appear to be near inheriting the earth. The karma of fight club > seems > > > > > to arise whether one does anything or not. > > > > > > > In the US, corporate TV often goes on rants about professionals > being > > > > > held to ‘a higher standard’ when it comes to being an example for > > > > > others. This principle, as intriguing as it is, would be > interesting > > > > > if applied to the media sponsors and Wall Street let alone the > > > > > activities of government leaders. While such strife has always been > > > > > with us and as long as there is competition for resources always > will > > > > > be, the newly publicized Bush Doctrine and associated divine right > to > > > > > meddle in the affairs of others to any extent and for any ends at > all > > > > > surely is not lost on the next generations. When it comes to the > > > > > clergy, a similar failure is clear. No matter the position of > anyone > > > > > professing peace, being a living example is all important. Just > > > > > yesterday, Obama rejected meeting with HHDL for the fear of ticking > > > > > off China, of all things! This is ‘change’ we can do without. > > > > > > > On Oct 8, 8:13 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks, Neil, it would not be the first time I relied on the > person > > > > > > holding the gun next to me. But as I said, I have found that > living > > > > > > in a way that is unattached to violent thoughts and feelings > creates a > > > > > > non violent direct experience for me. Allan offers the formula: > "I > > > > > > have to be at peace with who I am, what I believe and how I > respond to > > > > > > my world. Then I have to take the responsibility for who I am and > what > > > > > > I do, with out excuses," and this formula is among the best that > I > > > > > > have heard. > > > > > > > > We can truly, as Allan suggests, only act peacefully in ways that > our > > > > > > experience in the moment allows. That calling, I think, is a > > > > > > reflection of who we are in the moment and an invitation into > greater > > > > > > possibility. > > > > > > > > It is ironic that the national attention is on youth violence in > > > > > > Chicago because one of the best studies in community and youth > > > > > > violence came out of the University of Chicago in 1993 and a ten > year > > > > > > study funded by the federal Department of Juvenile Justice. I > forget > > > > > > the name of the professor that administered the grant and > directed the > > > > > > research, and my files are tucked away far out of reach. But in > 1993 > > > > > > I was one of the first people to access the info after > publication, > > > > > > and it consisted of thousands of pages and papers on community > > > > > > organization for every sector of society. There was so much > > > > > > information that in order to not only distribute the info but the > > > > > > copying costs, I moved around from place to place for about a > month, > > > > > > copying the recommendations for the judiciary at the courthouse, > > > > > > police at a police dept., education at a superintendents office - > all > > > > > > volunteering to be part of the effort. If I had had the funding, > I > > > > > > would have shipped it off to a printer, but sometimes we do what > we > > > > > > must. The main idea that came out of this study was that > community > > > > > > organization is key to reducing all risk factors in communities > > > > > > including violence. > > > > > > > > The point is, that the info came out of chicago, yet it seems > that > > > > > > cook county did not utilize it the way lake county (just to the > north > > > > > > in Illinois state) did. Youth violence is not a new problem but > it is > > > > > > complex, beginning with problems of bonding between child and > parent > > > > > > with the societal shift to two working parents in the home. Dr. > > > > > > Sigurd Zielke out of indiana had a theory at the time called > "Kid's of > > > > > > the 90's" that offered a process of "repair and restoration" for > kids > > > > > > who did not bond in the early years, and taught a good method for > > > > > > interaction with these kids that I used when designing trainings > for > > > > > > my programs. Much youth violence of today begins here. > > > > > > > > My oldest son suffered the blows of the type of gang fight a few > years > > > > > > ago, that has been coming out of chicago on the news, although he > had > > > > > > a few buddies helping him out, he was the first to go down, hit > with > > > > > > something across the face, breaking facial bones, causing a big > > > > > > concussion but leaving no permanent damage. It was in Old Town in > > > > > > Chicago, but Slip is right, it could have happened most anywhere. > > > > > > Fights like this on school grounds do (or should) get everyone, > even > > > > > > the watchers, suspended or expelled. But they are not only on > school > > > > > > grounds. > > > > > > > > Fight clubs are not just fictional, they are a huge social > problem of > > > > > > this coming of age generation and I suspect it will be a problem > for > > > > > > their children. If we can get back to lifestyles that meet the > > > > > > developmental needs of young children it will be a huge start. As > Neil > > > > > > suggests, this would mean some shift in economies for families. > I > > > > > > worked with my son consciousness raising while allowing that > fully > > > > > > living the warrior within us before finding our peace is a > traditional > > > > > > path. I was hoping football would give him a big enough outlet, > but > > > > > > there seemed to be larger expressions begging release. > Thankfully, he > > > > > > seems to have found a greater peace in his life now. Having been > > > > > > allowed the child parent bonding necessary, he had an edge for > this > > > > > > learning curve that more and more kids don't. > > > > > > > > We each find peace in our own way, and plant the seeds of peace > as we > > > > > > are called to do. It is also important to recognize those > tendencies > > > > > > in ourselves that lead to violence, even on the more subtle, > > > > > > interpersonal forms: where do we create conflict so that we can > feel > > > > > > it? when are we working against instead of with? When do we > hold on > > > > > > to negative emotions much longer than necessary, holding on to > our > > > > > > injuries to indulge in our old tracks? When are we judging our > > > > > > neighbors? Or focusing on the violence or negativity around us? > All > > > > > > of these subtle forms of violence within ourselves will bring > more > > > > > > violence into our experience because the old adage is as true as > the > > > > > > paradox of the Pharisee, "violence breeds violence" but a better > adage > > > > > > would be "peace breeds peace." > > > > > > > > On Oct 8, 6:12 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > If you were the Vicar in the War of the Worlds Molly I wouldn't > let to > > > > > > > march down the Martians with your Bible (no heroism here, you'd > have > > > > > > > given our position away and I'd have shot you if necessary) ... > but I > > > > > > > know that's not what you mean. I think cosiness is an illusion > we use > > > > > > > to evade reality, whether through prayer or humour. This > doesn't mean > > > > > > > I don't want it at some appropriate moments. I always take Orn > > > > > > > seriously by the way, otherwise I could never laugh at him! > > > > > > > I'm pretty convinced that economics is at the root of much evil > in the > > > > > > > world - huge resources go unused or have to be bought from idle > owners > > > > > > > - and we are generally not educated to do much of what needs > doing > > > > > > > ourselves in communities. I do believe something a bit like > prayer > > > > > > > might help us get an understanding of this. > > > > > > > > > On 8 Oct, 09:21, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > what have you done recently to plant the seed of peace in > yourself, > > > > > > > > family, > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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